Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

To: Viva Christo Rey; BlackElk; sandyeggo; corpus; Land of the Irish
If you claim to know for sure what Jesus Christ said or meant on the issue of the Aramaic from which "pro omnes" or "pro multis" were translated,

1. What were the precise Aramaic words?

ARAMAIC (air a MAY ic):  The language of the ancient Aramaean people. The language, also used in parts of the Bible, survived down through our Lord's time and into the seventh century as a written and a spoken language. It was then gradually replaced with Arabic with the Arab conquerors. Aramaic developed different dialects, divided into eastern and western Aramaic. While on earth, Jesus spoke a western (Palestinian) form of the language. *Syriac is a language related to Aramaic.

SYRIAC (SEER ee ak)A language related to *Aramaic. Syriac is divided into two basic dialects; eastern (centered in ancient *Nisibis and *Edessa, in modern-day southern Turkey), and western (centered in *Antioch and Palestine). Syriac survived as an academic language for several centuries, as the bible and many Greek classics were translated into Syriac; and a whole body of original Syriac literature exists. It also served as a liturgical language in the Syriac *Churches (of which the *Maronite Church is one) even to this day. The metrical homilies of St. *Ephrem are a good example of the use of Syriac. See ARAMAIC.

From the Maronite Liturgy:

Aramaic Consecration

Byow mo how daq dom ha sho dee leh
ma' bed hy eh
nsa bel lah mo be dow qa dee sho to.
Ou ba rekh
ou qa desh
waq so
ou ya bel tal mee dow kad o mar:
Sab a khool meh neh kul khoon:
Ho no den ee tow faghro deel
day lo fy koun wah lof sagee hey
meh tez seh ou meh tee heb
lhoo so yo dhow beh was ha yeh dal 'o lam
'ol meen.

English Translation

On the day before his life-giving passion,
Jesus took bread in his holy hands.
He blessed,
sanctified,
broke,
and gave it to his disciples, saying:
Take and eat it, all of you:
This is my body
which is broken and delivered for you
and for many,
for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

Ho kha no 'al ko so dam zeegh wo men ham ro ou men ma yo ba rekh ou qa desh ou ya be tal me dow kad o mar: Sab esh tow meh neh kul khoon: Ho no den ee tow dmo deel dee ya tee qee hda to dah lo fy koon wah lof sa gee yeh meh teh shed ou meh tee heb lhoo so yo dhow behwal ha yeh dal o'lam 'ol meen. Likewise he blessed the cup of wine mixed with water, sanctified, and gave it to his disciples, saying: Take and drink from it, all of you: This is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed and handed over for you and for many, for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

Source: Glossary of Maronite Terms

396 posted on 07/14/2004 5:46:41 PM PDT by NYer (When you have done something good, remember the words "without Me you can do nothing." (John 15:5).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 391 | View Replies ]


To: NYer; BlackElk; ninenot; Grey Ghost II; Land of the Irish; Canticle_of_Deborah; ultima ratio; ...
NYer, thank you for posting the Aramaic/Syriac for the words of consecration and the translation which I have copied below from your post.

B.E., you said you would abide by NYer's judgement, well she HAS posted, and has even highlighted the words "for many" for your behalf..

The ridiculous canard, that Aramaic/Syriac did not have a word that signified "many", was just one of a legion of lies that were spewed forth in the 1960's to justify a heretical translation, in practically every nation's vernacular, to justify universal salvation, i.e. that all would be saved.

The Council of Trent, the Council of Florence, Saint Thomas Aquinas' Summa, etc. are most clear that although OUr Lord incarnated, suffered and died for the salvation of ALL, not all would avail themselves of the FRUIT of His passion, hence the correct translation, is "for you and for many". Anything else is heretical, and because it is heretical and thus significantly changes the words of the sacrament, Christ's words, it invalidates the sacrament.

A further note, the latest 'eucharistic document' of 'john paul ii', employ in Latin, the incorrect and heretical words for you and for all in absolute contradiction of the words of Our Lord and even of the Latin version of the novus ordo missae.

He did so by design. The direction he and others have been moving the 'church of vatican ii' all along. In this instance it is universal salvation, we do not know if anyone is in hell, "hell is not a physical place", etc.

From the Maronite Liturgy:

Aramaic Consecration

Byow mo how daq dom ha sho dee leh ma' bed hy eh nsa bel lah mo be dow qa dee sho to. Ou ba rekh ou qa desh waq so ou ya bel tal mee dow kad o mar: Sab a khool meh neh kul khoon: Ho no den ee tow faghro deel day lo fy koun wah lof sagee hey meh tez seh ou meh tee heb lhoo so yo dhow beh was ha yeh dal 'o lam 'ol meen.

English Translation

On the day before his life-giving passion, Jesus took bread in his holy hands. He blessed, sanctified, broke, and gave it to his disciples, saying: Take and eat it, all of you: This is my body which is broken and delivered for you and for many, for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

414 posted on 07/14/2004 7:24:29 PM PDT by Viva Christo Rey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 396 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson