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To: gbcdoj
Perhaps you could give an appropriate citation from the Pope which explains that Jews have their own salvific covenant? Or are you attributing Kasper's (possible?) opinion to the Pope, when it is well known that Kasper disagrees with Roman teaching on various matters (e.g. the letter of the CDF on the Church as Communion, which he has publicly criticized)?

You can't pretend that it's simply Kasper. First of all, Kasper is a cardinal of the Church. He was made a cardinal by JPII. He has never been disciplined, as far as is publicly known. Far from it, he has been promoted to the position that is the most in the public eye of any job in the Vatican. Just this week, for instance, he was down in Buenos Aires saying that "anti-zionism" is now the same as "anti-semitism." So it is clearly disingenuous to attempt to separate Kasper from the Vatican.

However, there are other sources besides Kasper. Here is a good article from Seattle Catholic which discusses some of the recent statements which imply that Jews don't need to convert, and it quotes the infamous "Reflections on Covenant and Mission" document of the USCCB which looks to Pope John Paul II for support:

"John Paul II has explicitly taught that Jews are "the people of God of the Old Covenant, never revoked by God," "the present-day people of the covenant concluded with Moses," and "partners in a covenant of eternal love which was never revoked."
Seattle Catholic: "From Ratisbonne to Reflections"

Apparently Cardinal Keeler, the author of the "Reflections" document, and I are in agreement on one thing at least, that JPII doesn't want to convert any Jews. Why else would the pope appoint as bishop to the "Hebrew Catholics" of Israel someone who considers himself more Jewish than Catholic and has no intention of converting any Jews? A Benedictine whose appointment was opposed by his own monastic superior?

[quote from Dominus Iesus] How is this compatible with the theory that Jews have a separate salvific covenant?

C'mon. We all know the drill by now. First you release a liberal document, then you release a conservative-sounding document. Unless of course you save time by mixing both types of statements into a single document. It's the dialectical method. But I hope that 40 years after Vatican II no one is taken in by it anymore.

It only takes a very small amount of cyanide in the food to kill you. You will consider it quite irrelevant to have someone point out the perfectly healthy chicken and peas that are also in the dish if you know that there is also a lethal dose of poison as well.

366 posted on 07/13/2004 7:57:48 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian
John Paul II has explicitly taught that Jews are "the people of God of the Old Covenant, never revoked by God," "the present-day people of the covenant concluded with Moses," and "partners in a covenant of eternal love which was never revoked."

For one thing, these are all statements lacking context. They never, however, say that Jews can be saved if culpably outside the Church. I don't think the Pope is saying anything substantially different than St. Paul:

As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

367 posted on 07/13/2004 9:01:47 PM PDT by gbcdoj (No one doubts ... that the holy and most blessed Peter ... lives in his successors, and judges.)
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