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To: BlackElk

"The pope owes you no answers."

Wrong. The Pope owes his Church correct doctrines, reasons, explanations. The Church has always insisted faith should be nourished by reason. We can't do this in the current climate. Modernism can't be reconciled with Tradition. So it doesn't even try. It's simply waiting for whole generations of traditional Catholics to die out.

"You owe him obedience."

Not when he commands what is wrong or unCatholic. Obedience is over-rated as a virtue anyhow. Of far more importance is the courage to resist someone with so much power when he commands what would do harm to souls.

"You don't like him."

Correct. I resent that he has allowed his Church to slide into chaos. All these scandals were preventable. But he has always had more mind to punish Tradition than he had to get after the perverts and apostates. That is what I blame him for--and for the disrespect he showed to the faith itself at Assisi.

"He excommunicated your heroes and adjudged SSPX a schism which it is."

They weren't my heroes until much later when I did some investigating and found out they were innocent. I investigated the so-called "excommunication"--and discovered it was never imposed by anyone, that it depended on the individuals themselves, on their internal dispositions. I also discovered the Pope's interpretation of the so-called "schism" was dishonest and ignored the evidence.

Of course, to someone like yourself this would hardly matter. To you the Pope is the boss, even when he's wrong and even when he's trying to give Catholic Tradition the shaft. But to me it matters that the Archbishop was innocent and the Pope in the wrong. It matters because I believe the Archbishop is the one who was defending the faith, and the Pope was the one who wasn't. It should have been the other way around.


364 posted on 07/13/2004 7:35:24 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: ultima ratio; ninenot; GirlShortstop
Of course, the fact is that your personal and idiosyncratic beliefs that malicious Marcel was "innocent" are utterly irrelevant.

You and the other schismatics are entirely too full of yourselves and obviously believe that this is all about YOUR tastes, beliefs preferences and delusions. Your cover is that you speak for an unrecognizable form of "Catholic" "Tradition" in which the pope is to be despised whenever he fails to obey you and your eccentric friends.

Modernism is a heresy. If you believe that JP II is a Modernist heretic, perforce you must be a sedevacantist since the Holy Ghost will protect the pope from doctrinal error.

You are also rejecting the promise of Jesus Christ that he will be with the Church (not your schism du jour but the CHURCH) all days even unto the end of the world. Don't waste bandspace claiming that either you or Marcel's little band of schismatics are the actual Church and that JP II's Roman Catholic Church is a masquerade.

JP II is pope. You are not. If you claim to be a Catholic against all evidence, then you owe him obedience. That is how it works and how it has always worked. Marcel and SSPX share with Luther and the Reformation an identical Modus Operandi and deserve the same fate.

JP II punished no one legitimately describable as Catholic Traditionalists. He punished despicably disobedient rebel clerics led by impudent Marcel, excommunicated the bishops and declared the movement and its adherents in schism. The resulting posture assumed by SSPX of being some sort of ecclesiastical ACLU (a schismatic Civil Liberties Union???) ought to be embarrassing to even schismatics but SSPX is far beyond embarrassment in its infernal and "intellectually" incestuous love affair with itself.

The pope is the boss, as he should be and was intended by Christ to be.

The pope is right and YOU are wrong.

Marcel was not only wrong. He was excommunicated and apparently died unrepentant. Some hero!

Your opinions are, again, utterly irrelevant. Catholicism is NOT democracy. Repent and return to the Faith of your ancestors. Submit to papal authority as an act of faith even if you have so poisoned your own mind and will as to make such a simple submission to the Vicar of Christ distasteful to you. You have time.

Marcel's time has run out.

372 posted on 07/14/2004 9:23:54 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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