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To: js1138
...but there is nothing in science that did not begin as a mystery.

And this is one mystery that has persisted for millennia; "establishment" biological science doesn't seem to be coming any closer to solving it. Probably because it's looking in all the wrong places would be my bet. Good grief, Darwin positively ignored the issue -- we have a scientific discipline said to be a "life science," yet it has ever ignored life per se.

IMHO "orthodox biology" has too many preconceived notions that have become sacred texts. And the following attitude I see reflected here daily is positively unscientific. In so many words, "Intelligent design is the province of infidels.... we must not let them get their grubby little hands on our sacred scriptures.... They are heretics and polluters of the One True Faith."....

Either the Second Law is false or you misunderstand it.

Whether I understand it or not, the Second Law seems to hold up pretty well in closed physical systems; put an energy source nearby, and the behavior of the system can change. But it is one thing for matter to behave differently as compared to an earlier state, and quite another for it to become alive. For one thing, aliveness seems to involve some degree of consciousness. How does "dumb" matter become "smart?" Answer that and you'll know how the life process came into being.

367 posted on 07/06/2004 1:41:15 PM PDT by betty boop
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To: betty boop
And this is one mystery that has persisted for millennia; "establishment" biological science doesn't seem to be coming any closer to solving it. Probably because it's looking in all the wrong places would be my bet.

Evolution is millenia old? The scientific method is millenia old? What are you smoking?

And "solving it"? Solving what? The Grand Mystery of Life, the Universe, and Everything? Try 42.

Good grief, Darwin positively ignored the issue -- we have a scientific discipline said to be a "life science," yet it has ever ignored life per se.

Um, did I miss it? Have we ever defined "life" in any meaningful, rigorous, or scientific terms?

IMHO "orthodox biology" has too many preconceived notions that have become sacred texts.

The essence of science is to observe nature, think critically, and to discover the truth where ever it can be found. Try it sometime.

And the following attitude I see reflected here daily is positively unscientific. In so many words, "Intelligent design is the province of infidels.... we must not let them get their grubby little hands on our sacred scriptures.... They are heretics and polluters of the One True Faith."....

Call me when they have a scientific hypothesis.

Whether I understand it or not, the Second Law seems to hold up pretty well in closed physical systems; put an energy source nearby, and the behavior of the system can change.

Well, we've certainly never seen it violated. Of course, that's what makes it a Law.

But it is one thing for matter to behave differently as compared to an earlier state, and quite another for it to become alive.

Different how? Funny, how nobody has ever noticed that except you.

For one thing, aliveness seems to involve some degree of consciousness.

Only if you define it that way. How conscious is a virus?

How does "dumb" matter become "smart?" Answer that and you'll know how the life process came into being.

"Dumb" and "smart" are your adjectives, conveying no information without further description. Try it sometime.

371 posted on 07/06/2004 2:03:16 PM PDT by balrog666 (A public service post.)
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