God's love indeed extends to all mankind.
Frapster.
GRPL member #55.
As for John 2:2 and others - let's get something straight - all of creation groans under the weight of sin and waits for the redemption of the world. When Adam fell we died spiritually but the entrance of sin into God's creation was pervasive to all of creation.
Romans 8:19-21 - 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that[9] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
The whole of creation most certainly benefits from Christ's death upon the cross - it is we as humans, however, that have been called to choose based upon our particular dispensation of free will. This is where my belief in election comes in and understands that all have rejected (including the elect). All were given the opportunity to reject - how else could they reject something that was not offered to them in the first place?
God's love indeed extends to all mankind.
Frapster.
GRPL member #55.
More than that. God is love.
If Christ died for all men (was the propitiation for their sin ) , were all men saved at the cross or was no one saved at the cross. It can only be one or the other.
If Jesus dies for all men , the an arbitrary and capricious god was an indian giver and demanded that men pay again for something that was already a paid for and accepted payment
If no on was saved at the cross, then Jesus is not the saviour of men at all . Men save themselve
Christ died for all mankind - period. John 3:16 is not about election - it is first and foremost an expression of God's love for the crown of his creation. There are many references in the scripture that indicate God's love for mankind, 2 Peter 3:9 being one of them.
No that is not what 2 peter says at all.
I find that people read the Bible with little care , so they read over important points or the omit them because they are inconvenient
Please save me the argument against 2 Peter 3:9 because I have it up on my other screen even as I type -
Which only shows that you choose not to read it
I am going to post it for others that maY be interested in reading the word in context
Teaching on 2 peter
Who was the letter sent to? Who was the audience?
2Pe 3:1** This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in [both] which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance
The beloved are the saved
What is it's topic?
It is a teaching to the church on the end times. It is not a salvation teaching it is an end time teaching
What is the theme?
Judgment and destruction of the wicked
The passage in question begins with the remembrance of the first judgment on the world.
The Flood
** 2Pe 3:5** For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
** * 2Pe 3:6** Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
Here he is speaking of the judgment men by the flood.
The judgment theme continues ;
2Pe 3:7** But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
He speaks of the type of judgment to come. no longer from rain and flood, but from fire.
Now again Peter restates who these words stating who they are written to, the saved brethren
2Pe 3:8* * But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
It is a teaching for the elect . It is written TO THE BRETHREN NOT THE UNSAVED
Pe 3:9** The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Now in the text in question who is He long suffering toward? He says it clearly .it is the audience that he is addressing ..The brethren..the elect..US-WARD
.God is long suffering . He will not rain down the punishment until all the elect are saved.
If we were to read the Arminian reading into the text the Lord could never return because there will never be a day when the entire creation of men will be saved. So Christ could never come..He would be stuck in heaven waiting for men to make up their mind.
*Back to a judgment text :
* 2Pe 3:10** But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Referring back to 3:6 &7
The reading of the text as a salvation teaching or promise in the center of a text in the center of an end time teaching breaks the flow and meaning of a text that tells how God intends to judge the reprobates in the last days .
Your reading gives this text an impossible rendering . Because it would be saying the judgment He has just taught could never occur ,because God is long suffering to ALL men That makes is an impossible rendering of the text .
I've heard it a million times before.
Perhaps without ears ??
The question is never the text, it says what it means, what it does not address is WHO will believe and Why.
As for John 2:2 and others - let's get something straight - all of creation groans under the weight of sin and waits for the redemption of the world. When Adam fell we died spiritually but the entrance of sin into God's creation was pervasive to all of creation.
Romans 8:19-21 - 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that[9] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. Take some time to read your proof text
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Man was not the instigator of either the vanity or the DELIVERANCE . Both were acts preformed on them. Both greek words , subjected to and delivered from were in the passive voice.
5786 Voice - Passive
The passive voice represents the subject as being the recipient of the action. E.g., in the sentence, "The boy was hit by the ball," the boy receives the action.
There was no "choice" there
The whole of creation most certainly benefits from Christ's death upon the cross - it is we as humans, however, that have been called to choose based upon our particular dispensation of free will. This is where my belief in election comes in and understands that all have rejected (including the elect). All were given the opportunity to reject - how else could they reject something that was not offered to them in the first place?
Hopw much "free will "do you REALLY have? Or is your "free will limited to the choices available to you?
God's love indeed extends to all mankind.
God shows a love and kindness to all His creation dogs, cats , nice, trees , oceans and the reprobate man