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To: garbanzo
If you believe that an individual has the right do with his life as he pleases...

Do we? Do we have the right to lie? Slander? Commit adultery? Spread pornography?

Does God give us these rights to do evil?

...then we only have to understand whether or not he consented to certain activity.

That's simple but based on the false premise above.

You don't put him in jail for exercising his rights to consentual individual choice just because you call his activity evil.

I don't "call" it evil. It is evil. Properly ordered sexual desire occurs within the bonds of matrimony. This is the natural law that is written on the human heart. It's common sense and self-evident. Pornography subverts the proper ordering of sexual desire, putting aside the more obvious evils engaged in by the actors themselves.

If you disagree, tell me how sexual desire should be ordered, in contradiction to the natural law.

177 posted on 05/28/2004 8:11:54 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan
Do we have the right to lie?

Sure, unless your lie injuries the rights of another (say, by defrauding them of their property)

Slander?

No, since the slander injures another's property right (their good name or reputation)

Commit adultery?

Sure. What rights are injured?

Spread pornography?

To consenting adults? Of course.

Does God give us these rights to do evil?

God, if he does exist, gave us free will. We have every right to do evil. We also have to accept the consequences of doing evil, whether in this life or the next.

Properly ordered sexual desire occurs within the bonds of matrimony.

So you say. I disagree. Prove I'm wrong.

This is the natural law that is written on the human heart

Your opinion. Nothing more.

Pornography subverts the proper ordering of sexual desire, putting aside the more obvious evils engaged in by the actors themselves.

Even if this is true, so what?

If you disagree, tell me how sexual desire should be ordered, in contradiction to the natural law.

I have no desire to order sexual desire, other than to require that sex be between adults who have reached the legal age of consent.

320 posted on 05/28/2004 10:50:21 AM PDT by Modernman (Work is the curse of the drinking classes. -Oscar Wilde)
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To: Aquinasfan
Do we have the right to lie? Slander? Commit adultery? Spread pornography?

We do have the right to lie in many instances - as long as we are not committing fraud or perjury. Slander is a civil suit not a criminal one. Even in states where adultery is not legal it is rarely prosecuted and is considered more of a civil issue than a criminal one.

Does God give us these rights to do evil?

Yes. Not your god perhaps, but since you can't prove your god is the right one, invoking his hypothetical will is a wash.

I don't "call" it evil. It is evil. Properly ordered sexual desire occurs within the bonds of matrimony. This is the natural law that is written on the human heart.

Or least the hearts of people raised in Western civilization. Amazing how only people who have been raised in a society based on Christianity have this "natural law".

375 posted on 05/28/2004 12:34:22 PM PDT by garbanzo (Free people will set the course of history)
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