[CCWoody]

Everything is the effect of a cause and thus everything stems from a first cause, ergo there is no free will.

***My counter-argument to these assertions on the science threads, is that algorithm at inception is proof of intelligent design. IOW, if the scientific materialist or metaphysical naturalist wishes to believe that the physical realm is ”all that there is” and it is all strongly determined – atheism nevertheless fails on the fact of initial conditions, that there was a beginning (an informed beginning at that!).***

That is not a counter argument to Edward's assertion. The first cause would be God. It is absurdly easy to demonstrate as well.

My problem with this whole line of discussion about the will is that it doesn't even address the fact that the will is not the determiner of man's eternal destination. His nature is. See John 3 for starters.

Woody.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your reply!

My counter-argument is for a science discussion, where the participants may be scientific materialists or atheists ... it is not for a theological discussion (such as to defend or debunk Edwards). Seems to me that people who do battle on the details of theology are already believers and do not need that line of argument. I just thought it might be helpful to anyone discussing the same issues on the general forum...

[Vernon]

Everything is the effect of a cause and thus everything stems from a first cause, ergo there is no free will.

Hmmmm...very mechanistic world isn't it? Kinda like a clock...or maybe a puppet?