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But there is no great proof for your assertion.

LOL you guys kill me, Calvinists that have crept in unaware or welcomed in IFBC's are RARE!

BTW, I subscribe entirely to the tenets of the independent fundamental Baptist churches.

If only you could get those poor dumb folks to accept the 5 points.

But I tend to favor SBC as a practical matter.

Of course thats where Calvinism is let in the door, and it is NOT in the majority of IFBC's

You and your buddy's really want to infiltrate the IFBC's it ain't gonna happen, you better off to stick with the SBC, they are already well on their way to being full blown apostate.

BigMack

From Brother Cloud's sermon:

"And any theology which hinders and dampens evangelistic zeal is wrong!

"Even in our day, there are some Calvinists who are very zealous for souls. There are some Calvinists who are more zealous for souls than some who do not believe in Calvinism."

"And the Metropolitan Tabernacle is one of those examples. The church which Spurgeon pastored is still there today, although much smaller, in London. And they preach and they have a Sunday school on Sunday afternoon and they go out across London and they have thousands of people in their Sunday school. And they go out and preach on the streets. And they preach the Gospel. And the Word of God tells us that any theology that dampens evangelistic zeal, that is the enemy."

"And I believe there is something even more dangerous than a soul-winning Calvinist. And that is any methodology that corrupts evangelistic zeal...is the enemy."

"I personally feel closer to some Calvinists, soul-winning Calvinists, than I do to some independent Baptists with their man-centered theology and practice in what I call 'quick-prayerism'."

" 'What's that', you say. Well, it's quick to lead someone in a prayer even when there's no evidence of conviction."

"Without the spirit of God, you can't save anybody. If the spirit of God is not bringing that conviction, and that repentance, and that enlightenment, then you're not going to save them by getting them to pray a prayer."

"Not only that, but you're going to give them a vain hope."

David Cloud, audio sermon, ~44:00

[I love that underlined phrase!]

So, try as he might, Brother Cloud can't dismiss Calvinists and their evangelism, historic and modern, entirely. And the tidbit about Spurgeon's church is why Cloud's work is a valuable contribution. Cloud has some good research, digs up good stuff to bring to his preaching and especially his writing.

Personally, I'd be willing to contribute cash money to buy an airline ticket for our own Orthodox Presbyterian to go debate Brother Cloud on this matter of Calvinism and evangelism. I think we could grant OPie honorary Baptist status as an alumnus of a very well-known independent Baptist college. Such a debate would be most instructive.

You'll have to forgive me if I have appointed Rev. Cloud as the primary anti-Calvinist spokeman among IFB churches. There's little evidence that the others make any great issue of it.

Perhaps Brother Cloud fears that ksen might apply for a position in his church.

If there is, as you maintain, no discernible Calvinist element among IFB churches, one must wonder why Rev. Cloud is compelled to speak so forcefully to the issue.

Is that it? Are IFB churches under secret Calvinist assault, battling off hordes of Calvinists quietly infiltrating the pews?

BTW, FR's Calvinist element has many times condemned quick-prayerism in exactly the same terms and at far greater length than did Brother Cloud in his sermon. It is the Arminian element who have consistently defended the practice in debate here.