Replies

I never said that, come on my 12 neighbor can spin better than that. I said it ain't a true IFBC if it accepts Calvinism. BigMack

Exactly what "Fundamentals" do these "true" Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches uphold, BigMack?

Could it be, perhaps, "The Five Fundamentals" which were propounded by the 1910 General Assembly of the (then still Calvinistic) Presbyterian Church? (the inerrancy of the Bible, the virgin birth of Christ, His substitutional atonement, Christ's bodily resurrection, and the authenticity of miracles)
The theology of the twelve-volume paperback series "The Fundamentals" published 1910-1915 at a personal cost of $300,000 by Calvinist Presbyterian brothers Lyman and Milton Stewart?
The theology which was originally known as "The Princeton Theology" for years before it eventually became known as "Fundamentalism" in 1920-22, and which was most ably defended by Calvinist Presbyterian Prof. J. Gresham Machen, aka "Dr. Fundamentalist" to his peers and enemies?

If not for Calvinists, the IFBC's would just be IBC's -- like the Root Beer, except without the Root. For it was exactly the Calvinists who propounded, codified, financed, and published "The Fundamentals" which launched the Fundamentalist movement in the first place!!

And then, as is usual throughout the history of Protestantism -- along prance some johnny-come-lately Arminians who hitch a ride after the hard intellectual and financial ground-work has been done by Calvinist Presbyterians and Baptists, only to then call their Calvinist Forefathers the "heretics" whilst claiming for themselves the credit for what their Calvinist Forefathers hath wrought!!

Q: How does one locate an Arminian Baptist bearing Good Fruit?
A: Just wait behind the Calvinist Baptist orchard after cover of darkness, and you'll usually find one sneaking out with a basket-full just after midnight.

I said it ain't a true IFBC if it accepts Calvinism.

Huh?

You keep bleating this as though it has some meaning.

Do you think there is actually such a thing as a Baptist denomination? I assure you, our entire history rejects this denominationalism that you hint exists.

You seem to think you can compel other Baptist churches to accept the doctrine of your church. This is false.

Can you cite a single instance of an independent Baptist church being expelled from its association or convention for Calvinist doctrine? Please name them.

The fellowship of Baptist churches with other churches, both Baptist and non-Baptist, is based upon that which they universally confess.

For instance, one might observe that, next to Reformed Baptists, the SBC is the most 'Calvinist' of Baptist conventions. However, I know of no SBC church which makes Calvinism a litmus for membership and certainly not for clergy. In fact, SBC churches do soft pedal the entire Calvinist issue and their preaching reflects this.

Baptists have rarely compelled anyone in this matter in their history. Not General Baptists, or Calvinistic Baptists in the SBC, or Independent Baptists. Not even the Cooperative Baptists (extreme liberals like Carter). However, one can cite some very firm classic Calvinists in the SBC camp or among the English Baptists (Gill, Spurgeon). And yet, these same 'Calvinists' never made of it a formal litmus test.

The issue, among modern Baptists, is quite divisive and very few individual churches use complete doctinral Arminianism or Calvinism as a formal litmus for preaching or membership.

I would say that what is more universally rejected is a dogmatic approach of extremism on either side. Whether they call themselves Calvinist or Arminian or, more commonly, wiggle away from both terms, I would say clergymen tend to get a foot in both camps when it comes to their preaching.