Posted on 02/07/2004 12:26:51 PM PST by Gamecock
I don't understand the point of you Calvinists.
Are you saying, "We're saved, you haven't got a chance, you were born to fry, and just acknowledge it, you of the great damned."?
Yeah, says I. ;^)
Did you forget the emphasis is also on "And him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" is also true, and "him that cometh to me" is of free will?
Yes, we come to Christ freely. I would never argue against that, and neither would any of the Calvinists I know.
If your not starting to argue as a Calvinist, I'll give you and hour to draw a crowd and I'll kiss your @ss on the court house lawn.
Better make it two, I have a son to put to bed first. ;^)
Jhn 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
That 'whosever' wasn't limited.
"All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me (whom the Father has given to him) I will in no wise case out." Furthermore, no man can come unless the Father draws him (6:44). Those who the Father draws and those who the Father gives are spoken of in the same way, as those who will be raised up at the last day (6:39/6:44).
That those who are drawn and who are given believe of their own will is not in dispute. What leads them to that belief is.
Simple conditional statement. Speaks nothing to who will actually meet the condition (or how meeting it comes about).
But losing the 'lottery' is really bad news, in this case. So is there free will to pick the correct numbers?
You missed the point. The point of the example was to show the fallacy in using a simple conditional statement to imply the universal ability of all people to meet the condition.
You call irresistible grace grace free will? LOL
Its Ok come on out of the closet. :)
Good night.
BigMack
It is all about the proper understanding of God and ourselves.
Then it would help if you explained a little more. To the average reader, it would appear that Calvinism has a small number of elect that were just born that way, and the rest of humanity are born without any chance of salvation, hell being their pre-birth destination.
Why do Calvinists even bother talking about it since they are born to be saved? And why missionaries, the elect will get there anyway>
Since you have obviously (in your own eyes) met the condition, why do you need to tell others that they have no chance of election?
"I'm there, you're not! Tough luck, suckers!"
Your whole doctrine is one of hopelessness. There is no reason to spread the Good News, the elect will get by and it's useless for the rest.
Uh oh, I see an ugly remark in my future...
Are you saying, "We're saved, you haven't got a chance, you were born to fry, and just acknowledge it, you of the great damned."?
Yep, there it is.
Show me where I said anything remotely resembling your post in tone or timber.
I think I already answered that in post 30.
And why missionaries, the elect will get there anyway>
Primarily because Jesus commanded us to do so. Seems like a good enough reason to me. ;-)
Spurgeon, that grand old Calvinist, said it best:
God did not put a yellow stripe on the faces of the elect, so we are commanded to preach the gospel to every creature, however only the elect will respond.
Contrary to popular urban legend, Calvin was deeply interested in evangelism and sent missionaries out from Geneva in order to find God's elect. (Sources available on request)
You won't find it even in cork board, but I was asking about the teaching that the majority of humans are born without a hope, born to fry in hell.
Jesus commanded us to go find the elect. Were there no elect in China for centuries, for instance, because no missionary could get in? And if there were Chinese elect born to be saved, why worry? The only ones to feel sorry for are the billions of human fryers without a chance. It would have been better for them not to have been born.
Yes, I meet the condition for salvation (which is what John 3:16 speaks of): I have faith in Christ. That was not the condition of my election, nor was anything else I did, am doing or will do. I don't need to tell others that they have no chance of election because I have absolutely no idea who is elect.
"I'm there, you're not! Tough luck, suckers!"
Whatever.
Your whole doctrine is one of hopelessness. There is no reason to spread the Good News, the elect will get by and it's useless for the rest.
You can continue to argue against hypercalvinism all you want, but those who hold the actual Reformed position will continue to press on in missionary work, preaching and acts of compassion.
Perhaps you should learn a little more about what the Reformed position actually is before denouncing it with grand words and appeals to emotion. Just a thought. In the mean time, do you have any scripture besides John 3:16 you wish to bring to this discussion, or is ridicule and forceful adjectives the meat of your argument?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.