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To: exmarine
Look, I'm getting tired of your insults pal. If you can't stop impugning my education, etc

I'm not impugning your education- I'm questioning it, as you have done to mine in the past. If you weren't so sensitive about it, you'd have answered the question a long time a go.

Show me a democracy prior to the United STates that had full representation,

Umm... the franchise was originally limited to rich, landowning white males. The US didn't have full representation until well into this century.

equal rights,

Slavery, anyone? Roman citizens all had protected rights, though.

separation of powers

The Roman Republic. They had separate judicial, legislative and executive branches.

In fact, show me one now that has the separation of powers, protection of rights, federalism, etc. that we have

Using your definition of democracy (mob rule) there are no democracies on the planet. As to whether there are other countries in the world that practice separation of powers, protection of rights and federalism, off the top of my head: Canada, France, Germany, the UK, Australia, Japan. Probably some others, but these are the ones whose governmental systems I'm familiar with.

602 posted on 01/13/2004 1:00:20 PM PST by Modernman (Providence protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: Modernman
Umm... the franchise was originally limited to rich, landowning white males. The US didn't have full representation until well into this century.

Women had the same human rights as men before they got the right to vote. I'm still waiting for an example from pre-1787.

614 posted on 01/13/2004 1:09:00 PM PST by exmarine ( sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Modernman
I might add that women were counted for purposes of representation even though they could not vote (slaves were not until after the civil war) - but that was an injustice recognized and deferred by the founders.

The Roman Republic. They had separate judicial, legislative and executive branches.

The roman republic did not resemble our republic. First, it treated women like dirt (every man had a mistress for pleasure - a wife was used only for procreation to give the man an heir). The senate was all patricians. They did not have full representation, and these patricians were not elected -they inherited their positions or were appointed. In addition, they had no constitution, and did not hold to principles of basic rights for all men (life, liberty, property). In addition, there were no checks and balances and the republic deteriorated into dictatorship in 44 BC. Then, Caesar became arbitary ruler over everybody and everything and no one had any rights that Caeser did not give them. There are other differences, but our founders studied Rome very carefully and did not want to make the same mistakes as Rome did (or Greece).

I might add that, ironically, homosexual marriage was not allowed even in depraved rome. Modern France, Netherlands and the State of Massachusetts should be proud - they are plunged to moral depths not before realized in recorded history!

623 posted on 01/13/2004 1:15:42 PM PST by exmarine ( sic semper tyrannis)
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