[xzins]

You don't know the history of the conversation.

That aside. We've had enough "unconditional election" discussions to fill a room with books of printout.

At one level, both Arminians and Calvinists believe in unconditional election. Arms base it on God's foreknowledge. Calvinists base it on God's foreordination.

I think the Arminian version better preserves other scriptures that reflect free will.

[lockeliberty]

I think the Arminian version better preserves other scriptures that reflect free will my presuppositions.

[sr4402]

You don't know the history of the conversation.

That doesn't matter, the issue whether God can choose and save Mormons, retarded folks, etc is what Vernon brought up. If he thinks that we are wrong, in that God could choose out of this group, does pertain to Unconditional Election.

If he does believe, that these folks cannot believe and go through the sanctification process would doubt God's choosing them in the first place("for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose." Phil 2:13).

I think the Arminian version better preserves other scriptures that reflect free will

Why assume there is no free will in the calvinist position?. Men do "call upon the name of the Lord" and are saved. But we Calvinist say that the Grace of God (Irristable Grace) is more powerful than we comprehend and that there is a lot more before salvation than meets the eye and we find this throughout Scripture. We would say that man's free will cannot save him, but that God can and does use it.