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To: TheAngryClam; honeygrl
However, I have grown very tired of people who claim that Christianity is the wellspring of every instance of progress since its inception, and who wish to pretend that the true roots of western civilization in Greece and Rome somehow did not exist before Christianity.

(Nods head vigorously).

I've had these folks deny any link between Classical Greek and Roman concepts of democracy and the Founding Fathers. In their view, the FF were divinely inspired to create our current republic, with no connection to pre-Christian civilizations. Never mind the fact, for example, that the Roman Republic had a very similar three-branch of government set-up. Never mind the fact that both the Greeks and the Romans accepted the idea of inalienable rights for citizens.

But, hey, why let history get in the way of your desire to paint America as a divinely inspired Calvinist state.

1,667 posted on 10/25/2003 7:22:03 PM PDT by Modernman ("I'm just a simple man, trying to make my way in the universe."- Jango Fett)
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To: Modernman
But, hey, why let history get in the way of your desire to paint America as a divinely inspired Calvinist state.

If you don't believe that America was founded on judeo-Christian moral principles, then you are either ignorant or biased. If necessary, I can overwhlem you with a blizzard of quotes and facts from the founding era. Care to take up the challenge of defending your pathetic revisionist position that the United States.

The Roman system did have some influence on western society and our founders, but the bible and the Reformation had BY FAR the most influence. Was the book of Isaiah written before the roman empire? Yes. Look at this verse:

For the LORD [is] our judge, the LORD [is] our lawgiver, the LORD [is] our king; he will save us. Isaiah 33:22

Looky there - the 3 branches of government!! Whadya know! Furthermore, the Roman republic was an utter FAILURE - it turned into a dictatorship because the roman senate did not truly represent the people. They were patricians. Our representative government is different than any other to precede it. Our founders read history VERY CAREFULLY and saw the horrible flaws in not only the roman system but the greek democracy as well. In Rome, the people served the State; in America the State serves the people (at least used to!).

1,689 posted on 10/27/2003 7:30:49 AM PST by exmarine
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To: Modernman
Oh, I forgot. The idea of representation also comes from the bible originally - from Exodus (written about 1300 BC):

And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens. Ex. 18:25

It seems you speak out of ignorance.

1,690 posted on 10/27/2003 7:38:54 AM PST by exmarine
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