Elizabeth Smart Thread, 9/17/02 to ???

[Devil_Anse]

Thanks very much for the info, Scaredkat.

So the jeep did go somewhere. People used to speculate that Ricci had lent his jeep to someone that week. I didn't pay much attention at the time. It seemed to me that he had little enough as it was, so why would he be lending out his vehicle. BUT more recently, I realize that one of Ricci's priors gives a clue, maybe. He was convicted of receiving stolen food from that food bank in Sevier County. He had LENT HIS TRUCK to a person who proceeded to use it to burgle the food bank. Ricci was given some of the loot, presumably as payback for having lent the truck. That's what got him in trouble--having possession of stolen property from a burglary that was technically done by someone else.

So Ricci had lent his vehicle to a fellow criminal at least one time.

And then when I keep seeing mentions of methamphetamine labs, it begins to get me going again on my old idea that the "disappearance" of Ricci's jeep from Neth's, on May 30, maybe had something to do with illegal drug running or illegal drug sales or something, and maybe that's why he refused to explain about where the jeep was--b/c he'd have known that anyone who told police anything about a drug dealer's doings would be in very great danger of being killed. The posters on Capitol Grilling long ago speculated that maybe the jeep got mud on it b/c it was used by someone harvesting marijuana, but later they said that that didn't really fit b/c it wasn't harvest time for marijuana that time of year.

So the officer now thinks Ricci wasn't involved. Yeah, but if his jeep was involved b/c he lent it to someone, with friends like that, who needs enemies? (Or did someone associated with the auto place just borrow the thing w/o permission?)

[varina davis]

Wednesday September 18, 2002

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) Wary of the Pennsylvania coal mine accident, a Utah mining company was careful to check underground maps when water was found seeping through the walls of a tunnel being cut deep inside the Dugout Canyon Mine in Carbon County.

Kat, here is something about an old mine from KUTV News today.

[Devil_Anse]

I saw that Francom on the sex offender registry--Mark S. Francom, I think. Or Sterling Mark Francom.

People of course noticed that he had the same name as one of Myron Francom's survivors, but he turned out to be from a different Francom family. (Probably a distant relative?)

He was a really big, blond guy. Didn't fit the description of the abductor at all. I don't remember anything about his being a photographer--where did that come from, I wonder?

[varina davis]

I think it must be pretty obvious to everyone by now why no sketch was ever released of the alleged perpetrator.

[varina davis]

I meant to also address my last post to scaredkat.

[Devil_Anse]

Believe me, I'm not computer savvy! But this should work:http://corrections.utah.gov/asp-bin/sexoffender.asp?offender=79154&addrid=510274&jurs_flg=U&name_id=194660

That's Richard Dean Miller. Of course, now he doesn't look like Ricci, to me. (His eyes don't match each other; Ricci's did.) But he does seem to have the same balding pattern.

Notice the height, weight, and age.

[Utah Girl]

I thought I heard Ralph Lauren or Polo shoes initially also. As sandude said, the elizabethsmart.com website has the shoes listed as Reeboks, but ksl.com has them listed as Ralph Lauren. And both websites use the same photo.

[cherry]

the photagrapher stuff was probably remember wrong by me....

[cherry]

varina...please state what you mean...are you in the "she didn't see a thing" camp or the "it was Ricci" camp...or the camp of " it was someone in the extended family"

[jandji]

concerning liz jogging, remember the early report about police driving mary kay around the neighborhood, trying to re-trace the route the sisters jogged together the night before the "abduction".

[cherry]

when Ricci was healthy..like from his wedding photo...he and this Allen guy had the same shape face...

[scaredkat]

harvesting marijuana

You bring a good point something I never connected till now. Some time ago the fbi went in somewhere in the hills and found allot of marijuana plants growing and they burned them. I will have to go back and check this out. It could be part of this.

[Jolly Green]

You know its not a full moon out, so what is your problem.

MY problem? It is you that comes acrossed as an illiterate country bumpkin that is either too stupid or too arrogant to spell or even punctuate correctly. It is you that is supposedly a Mormon but can't even spell it correctly. It is you with the half-baked insider information that you can't/won't share - largely because it isn't credible. It is you that LE has largely discounted because you came across to them as a crackpot.

And you say Ed Smart always wearing tan pants means something? Have you ever been into a mens store? About 90% of the men's pants are tan. To have any credibility, you have to say credible things.

[Jolly Green]

I mean, how on Earth would you know? And therefore — why would you imply it?

Varina is well known for planting lies and distortions on these threads. You will have to guess at her agenda.

[Devil_Anse]

I have a new variation on my half-baked theory from a while back, the one where Ricci was using the jeep as collateral when he was out of money and needed to buy heroin quickly.

How many times have we heard of a burglary "ring" or a car theft "ring?" All the time. How many times have we heard of chop shops, or maybe drugs, or maybe fencing stolen goods, being done in the background of a legitimate auto repair business?

The conviction Ricci got regarding that food stolen from a Sevier County food bank, was, I think, for Receiving Stolen Property. He'd lent his truck to someone, who then used the truck to burglarize the food bank, and when the job was done, Ricci was paid off with a share of the loot. That whole operation could have been a burglary ring.

I think sometimes when Ricci would "leave the jeep in the shop," he was actually lending it to some person/persons to use for crimes, possibly burglaries.

If there were a ring of people doing burglaries in Federal Heights, just think of all the individuals Sherlock has pulled together. Especially the guy seen by the milkman (whether that was Edmunds' car or not.) That guy might not have been just casing the Smarts', but perhaps other homes as well. One to case the place, one to go in, one to provide the vehicle (so any description of the vehicle wouldn't match that of the vehicle's real owner), one to fence and/or hold the loot, etc.

This is just a variation on theories people have had for months, that there was an accomplice. Maybe there were lots of accomplices, and lots of activities.

[varina davis]

varina...please state what you mean...are you in the "she didn't see a thing" camp or the "it was Ricci" camp...or the camp of " it was someone in the extended family"

Well, none of the above, actually. Maybe she saw "something," recognized a voice she'd heard, but wasn't sure of the name or exact identity. Still think it could have been someone the girls met casually while jogging, which could have triggered MK's partial recollection.

OR, could be someone she did pretty much recognize, and family and LE hoped to convince that "someone" to give up without making their identity known publicly. Extended family? Suppose anything is possible.

[varina davis]

concerning liz jogging, remember the early report about police driving mary kay around the neighborhood, trying to re-trace the route the sisters jogged together the night before the "abduction".

Yes, I do. That in itself might indicate the LE had reason to suspect the alleged perpetrator might be someone the girls met while jogging together.

[Devil_Anse]

Also, think how pimps keep prostitutes working for them by providing them with drugs that the prostitutes can't get along without, b/c the prostitutes are addicted. Ricci and Edmunds were addicts, couldn't someone have sort of had them working for him, keeping them under his control with drugs, the same way pimps do with prostitutes?

Maybe Edmunds had involvement. Maybe that's why his Saturn always seemed to be washed. Each of the people in the ring would only know part of what was going on, so their info would be of limited use to police.

[ChocChipCookie]

This morning on Fox news they showed a short clip of Elizabeth and said something about having some information later in the morning. I had to leave, but did anyone catch the whole story?

[scaredkat]

I have never asked anyone to believe my story. I have asked for help in solving some of the mysteries that are surrounding this case.

As for not sharing information, please look at what even Devil_Anse is saying, we are talking about drugs, porn, theft, guns and kidnapper/killers. I have a duty to protect those around me, my family and those who are helping me. As for LE I have stated from the beginning that I believe someone is involved from LE. There is a great need to be careful in what is said. If you dont think so be glad your in another state right now.

Punctuation has been discussed before, I dont punctuate because of my training with the work I do. The people that read my work do not want any punctuations at all (I will not change for this forum. I think you can still read it just the same unless your iliterate). Soooooorrrrrrry the hell out of my spelling. Everyone spells wrong unless you are cutting and pasting-- what a waste of time. If it bothers some so much go teach a class and grade all the papers you want.