Elizabeth Smart thread, August 31-September 7, 2002

[IamHD]

My prayers go out to the Ricci family during this time. RR was sent up the river and used as a scape-goat. No evidence, whatsoever, linking him to the disappearance of Elizabeth.

May he rest in peace.

[cookiedough]

I, too, read that MK had her own bedroom.

I have a bunch of young children, a year or two younger than MK, and they each have their own bedroom. They sleep together every night, because some of them get lonely in a bedroom by themselves, and this way they have the opportunity to scare their little sister with monster stories (which keeps her out of her room and with them -- go figure).

I wish I'd put full sized beds in the rooms, instead of twin beds. The kids want their own rooms, because that's where they keep their personal belongings (as opposed to toys and books which are shared by all). Sometimes they all go into one room, instead of dividing into 2 groups (at my insistence because it cuts down on the mayhem after light's out). They spread down comforters on the floor and make what they call a "nest" and they all sleep together there.

My kids are happy, healthy, noisy, totally normal kids. They just happen to have a Mom who doesn't see the point in fighting the everyone-in-their-own-beds battle.

[freedox]

KING: And he had the beard when he died?

RICCI: No. They just barely moved him to give him a razor and to get hot meals.

KING: That had just occurred?

RICCI: Yes. And I would have gotten his first phone call either the day he died or the day after I would have gotten that first phone call.

From this statement, it sounds as if Ricci had just been moved to a less secure part of the prison.....a place where he could use a razor and receive hot meals. However, Angela seems to accept the fact that he was always "alone" and had no outward signs of injury as proof that there was no foul play. Once again, her assumptions all seem to be based upon what she was told by the doctors at the hospital......Angela never mentioned any autopsy results, nor did she seem at all curious about what they might reveal. Does anyone else find this ODD?

[cookiedough]

I don't find it odd. She likely doesn't have the autopsy results yet. It's probably a nightmare to even think about. It's one thing to discuss autopsies on strangers, quite another to think about your beloved being autopsied.

[freedox]

As another person who remembers initial reports of Elizabeth and MK having separate bedrooms, I'll chime in. What you have described about kids choosing to sleep together makes a lot of sense. However, that is not what Lois said. Lois said that the girls had always shared a bedroom, denying the initial reports of either girl ever having had her own room.

[cookiedough]

I feel sorry for Angela. In a blink of an eye, her entire life has been turned upside down by the Smart case. That situation is traumatic, and it is even more traumatic that her husband died unexpectedly.

I hope she gets help from a good trauma therapist.

IMO, she doesn't know anything about Ricci having been involved in the Smart kidnapping, if indeed he was.

The circumstantial evidence is there, but it is not buttressed by any direct (meaning non-circumstantial) evidence, so in my mind, Ricci doesn't rise to the level of a bonafide suspect -- he merely has the best potential of any of the players of becoming one.

[cookiedough]

I go with Lois, then. She's the Mom. She knows where her children are sleeping.

[Neenah]

From this statement, it sounds as if Ricci had just been moved to a less secure part of the prison.....a place where he could use a razor and receive hot meals

I would like to know why he and Edmonds were so heavily guarded and separated.

Angela did say that the family did check him for outward bruising of the head.

CALLER: Yes. I was wondering if she felt like there was any foul play or anything in this?

RICCI: Before he went into surgery, we were very careful to make sure that there were no injuries on the outside of the head, that he didn't fall, that he wasn't hit with any object. This entire thing came from inside of the brain. It came from inside. So that is clear.

KING: So no convict got near him or prison guard.

RICCI: He was alone. He was alone all the time.

KING: And they made that clear to you.

RICCI: Yes

So the family must have at least HAD QUESTIONS to look for this. I, think in time, Angela and family will maybe look back, and wish they had called for independent reports on his condition...but then, I doubt the Prison would allow it. I feel she acted way to soon in conforming to the "way of the prison".

I really don't think in this sudden event, after all the scrutiny, and public attention, press, and then his collapse, surgery..etc. she was in a very good state of mind to make any logical decisions. Thus the cremation..How convenient...now second autopsy cannot be done, there is no body. Something doesn't ring right on this. Don't ask me to explain it...it is just what I am thinking now.

[Neenah]

Read this again: It sounds like she is telling King that SHE HAD QUESTIONS, but they weren't answering many.

RICCI: Oh, the prison. No, he was not in general population. They kept him away from everybody.

KING: Was that fear that he would be harmed?

RICCI: That's what they told me.

KING: He was shackled in the hospital?

RICCI: Yes.

KING: He's in a coma, and he's shackled.

RICCI: They didn't undo the shackles until after he died.

KING: You have tissues there, near you, I think, if you need them.

Did they tell you why a man in a coma was in shackles?

RICCI: They really didn't answer too many questions. He was a ward of the state at the time. And I guess they were hoping that he would wake up.

KING: And did they fear flight if he woke up? I mean, I don't mean to laugh.

RICCI: No, that's OK. I don't know. I guess it would be protocol. I don't know.

This tells me, that this woman in a horrible situation had no one helping her make decisions. Some of us have watched a loved one die, it is not an easy thing. Couple that with all the press, kidnapping, public eye, investigations, Grand Jury..etc...

Why did they have shackles on this man? UNTIL HE DIED ! How many Doctor's did she deal with? Was she allowed to make a phone call to consult with her attorney? Geez, I feel sorry for her in this state.

Having to make the decision to stop life support is traumatic enough, watching someone you love die is hard, but to just take at face value the word of one Dr..is harder to think about. I really don't know if I would have done it different. Sitting at my computer I can think of what she should have done...but being her is another thing.

I don't think she could have said.."No,I won't stop life support until I talk to another Dr. of my choice, my lawyer, and get a second opinion with the reports available to people of my choosing." NO, she was in no state of mind to say this.

(it is unclear how many Dr.'s consulted with her.)

[Utah Girl]

I think in the initial reports it was said that the two girls were sharing a room because of remodeling going on in the house. Later it was clarified that the bedroom had been built specifically for them to share.

[Sherlock]

RICCI: Oh, the prison. No, he was not in general population. They kept him away from everybody.

KING: Was that fear that he would be harmed?

RICCI: That's what they told me.

This is why Ed Smart's first reaction is someone might have poisoned Ricci. Unlike the posters on this thread they don't like perverts of Ricci's variety in prison.

[Sherlock]

RICCI: He's mistaken. Maybe someone took that Jeep, but it wasn't Rick. There were keys stolen to that Jeep. That Jeep has never had seat covers, ever had seat covers. To my knowledge, I don't know that he spoke with the person that took the Jeep or brought the Jeep back, only that he observed that it was gone and came back. I'm not sure of the full report on that. You know, I know Rick didn't have the Jeep. I know I didn't have the jeep. No one at his work saw the Jeep.

I don't know how anyone in their right mind (and I know that excludes the Smart hater and Ricci lover posters here) could not see these are bold face lies. Do you really believe this woman whose husband was incarcerated for nearly 3 months is ignorant of the fundamental facts in the case that put him there and even the most prejudiced posters on this thread are aware of? Please.

[Utah Girl]

Hold on, I missed the statement that the Jeep Cherokee just magically reappeared at the repair shop? Didn't Moul testify in the grand jury that it was Ricci that brought the Jeep Cherokee back? But then, I forget, the only believeable people in this saga are the Riccis, one must be an ex-con to be believeable...

[Sherlock]

Here's from the newspaper:

Also Thursday, Ricci's mechanic said Ricci was acting strangely when he dropped off his 1990 white Jeep Cherokee for repairs just three days after Elizabeth's kidnapping.

At 5:30 p.m. June 8, Ricci took his car to Net Moul for minor repairs. Moul describes Ricci as an easy-going person who is normally pleasant to talk to. But not on that day.

"He didn't even look me straight in the face. He was not in a good mood," he said. "He seemed more frustrated. I figured he must have had a problem. Something was up."

The Cherokee was caked in mud as if it had been four-wheeling, Moul said. Newspapers lined the floor of the vehicle as if someone were taking precautions to keep it clean. But when he tried to joke about it with Ricci, he got no reply.

Moul saw two seat covers lying behind the Jeep's back seat. Ricci put the seat covers in a plastic bag, grabbed a post-hole digger that was in the Jeep, and walked to the sidewalk in front of the auto shop near 3500 South and 4500 West, Moul said.

Ricci waved to a man who was at the gas station across the street. Ricci told Moul the man was waiting to give him a ride home. The man was Caucasian, had dark hair and was about 5-foot-8, Moul said.

Ricci went back to his Jeep and grabbed a second bag out of the vehicle and took it with him. The bag was full, but Moul said he couldn't tell what was in it.

What also caught Moul's attention that day was the odometer. Ricci had picked up his Jeep May 30 after having a fuel line fixed. Between May 30 and June 8, Moul estimated between 500 to 1,000 miles had been put on the car.

[Sherlock]

Don't forget Moul said Ricci was wearing a machette at his waist. And Angela is not sure Moul saw Ricci bring the Jeep in on Jun 8??? Puhleeeze.

Neth Moul, owner of Neth's Auto Repair, said that on May 30 Ricci inexplicably took his 1990 Jeep Cherokee off the lot where mechanics had replaced the fuel pump but had expected to do additional work. On June 8, Ricci returned the vehicle -- caked with mud -- for the other repairs. Police have said they want to hear from witnesses who might have seen the Jeep -- which Ricci received from Elizabeth's father, Ed Smart, as payment for odd jobs last year -- between May 31 and June 8. "[Ricci's] clothes were also very dirty; he was in a bad mood and he looked tired," said Moul, who tried to joke with Ricci about the mud. He called Ricci's behavior that day "very strange," because the usually friendly Ricci did not respond. Moul said he watched as Ricci, after pulling into the garage, filled two large bags with items from the vehicle -- including the Jeep's seat covers -- and slung them over a posthole digger he took from the back of his vehicle. Ricci then crossed the street where a man waited for him on a "grassy knoll" in front of a gas station, Moul said.

[Utah Girl]

Lois Smart said that that bedroom was built specifically for Elizabeth and Mary Katherine to share, that Lois remember many happy times in the bedroom she shared with her sisters growing up, and wanted her two daughters to have that same experience. And it worked, Elizabeth and Mary Katherine are very good friends. I don't see anything sinister with the fact that they shared a bedroom, it is quite common here, why I myself shared a room with my sister until I was 18.

[Sherlock]

New ES Thread

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/744805/posts?page=42