Posted on 09/23/2025 1:42:07 PM PDT by Beowulf9
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I write unto you.
1 Thessalonians 5:1.”
Haven't heard that play on my screen name before. /s
Some people, including me, but apparently you also, need to first unlearn what they know, when what they know to be true isn't. Only then can they learn what is true and correct.
1 Thessalonians 5:2-4 NKJV
For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
The reason the Thessalonians did not need to be instructed or taught about the times and seasons is that they already understood the concept of watching for the signs of Christ's return, understanding that the time, season, day, and hour have not yet been revealed. The only way anyone will know what time Jesus is coming again is by watching for the signs that He told us would precede His coming.
I already provided the scripture in which Jesus Himself explicitly says we are not given the times or seasons. You either didn't read it or chose to ignore it. I'll repeat in case you overlooked it...
Acts 1:6-7 NKJV
Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.”
Likewise, no one knows the day or hour...
Matthew 24:36 & 42-44 NKJV
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only... Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
Christ tells us that His coming like a thief means not knowing the hour of His coming FOR THOSE WHO DON'T WATCH.
Revelation 3:3b NKJV
Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.
Paul said that the Day of the Lord would come like a thief, just as Jesus said of His coming. (Hint: the Day of the Lord is the same time period as the Second Coming.) Paul and Christ also indicated, just as the above passage in Revelation says, that Christ's coming will NOT be like a thief to those who watch. “Like a thief” applies to those who are not expecting Christ's return and are therefore not watching.
Unfortunately, most people who claim to be Christians are not watching for His coming again. Most are unaware that the feast of trumpets, which pictures the rapture, is happening right now. And many who do know are unaware of the signs Jesus gave or they would not be deceived by TikTok rumors of His coming being now.
If you remain unconvinced I don't know what else to say. At least you're paying attention. Maybe you'll see the light later.
Around and around we go. Full circle.
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.1 Thessalonians 4:17.
That just means that if we are alive when God pulls the plug, we’ll be merged together in Heaven with those who died before us. What else could happen?
And yet...
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. You are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.1 Thessalonians 5:1-6.
(I'll try again, hoping you are a good-faith poster and debater.)
Does scripture contradict itself? To the carnal mind, yes. But to those who rightly divide the word of truth, no.
Context is king in interrupting and applying scripture. Your referenced words of Jesus were in the context of the question of restoring Israel. Many including Jesus' disciples thought Jesus came to restore Israel's independence and greatness. Jesus was simply putting those misunderstandings aside.
The context of my referenced words of Paul were the great concern and misunderstanding of the church about his coming again for the church (his "coming" is mentioned four times in 1 Thessalonians). God wants his children to not be afraid and to know what's coming.
So again, in the context of his coming for the church, we don't know the day or the hour but we SHOULD know the times and the seasons.
Read 1 &2 Thessalonians prayerfully and repeat, as I have. It's pretty explanatory, if you're open and want the Holy Spirit to teach you from His Word and are willing to abandon any pet doctrines you might have.
BTW, the word [his] "coming" appears seven times in 1 & 2 Thessalonians and is the theme of those books.
It makes no difference whatsoever what we believe regarding the concept of rapture. It has no bearing upon our Salvation.
Who said it did? "Salvation" in terms of eternal forgiveness was sealed forever when we receive Jesus.
BTW, the Greek word for "salvation is "sozo" which describes a comprehensive salvation that includes not just the forgiveness of sins but also deliverance from physical harm and a return to overall health and wholeness.
"Salvation" in terms of the quality of our lives in Christ (faith, peace, grace, wholeness, victory) can come into play when we know the truth of God's word like the great catching up of the church.
Hope that helps.
I am LCMS Lutheran. I can provide theological links if you wish; but, those can all be found via Internet search.
The concept of rapture is immaterial if all you’re interested in is getting to Heaven which, as you say, is a done deal because you’ve received Jesus.
But the Christian life and our life in Christ has WAY more potential than just getting to Heaven. Getting to Heaven is a really big deal, but as Jesus said, that is “FINISHED” [upon receiving Christ].
Most of the New Testament is about what can happen AFTER you receive Christ. There’s vistas of victory and blessing waiting for us now and rewards now and later.
The rapture/carrot on the stick.
Yes, it is necessary that you live a clean and fruitful life. The whole idea of “the end comes like a thief in the night” is that we must self-police regarding the Commandments and honoring our duty to Evangelize. Waiting until the very last minute to please God does not demonstrate actual Faith. This is like, “Don’t be raiding the hen house, because farmer John might pop in unexpectedly with his shotgun”.
“So again, in the context of his coming for the church, we don’t know the day or the hour but we SHOULD know the times and the seasons.”
Not trying to split hairs. And not trying to debate for the sake of debating. Our disagreement might be academic or a mere technicality. The test of your and my understanding of the passage is where we go from these understandings.
A person who thinks, “I may not know the day or hour, but I know the year”, is misguided. At least the idea of predicting the year far in advance based on scripture alone is false. Otherwise, the apostles certainly would have known it.
I watched a YouTube video of a guy recently who had calculated Jacob’s age when he married Rachel and Leah. He was excited to make the comparison between the seven years Jacob worked for Rachel to the 7 years of Daniel’s 70th week. He further pointed out that the number of years from Israel becoming a nation again until 2025 (this year, obviously) is the same as Jacob’s age when marrying Rachel and Leah. (Or maybe until he started his employment with Labon. I forget.)
Can we conclude from this that Daniel’s seventieth week must begin in 2025? Of course not.
It might be worthwhile to put Jacob’s life into a timeline and even look for symbolism related to end times events. But it is impossible to use such an analogy to prove or even support a particular paradigm for when the final seven years will occur. The same goes for all other date setters.
If we conclude that the Thessalonians knew, or rather knew about, the times and seasons, we might reasonably assume Paul taught them the meaning of Daniel regarding the abomination of desolation, how it fits into Daniel’s 70th week, and the role of Michael the archangel. Paul probably also taught them about many other passages, such as those in Joel, concerning the Day of the Lord, as this term is not found anywhere in Daniel. Likewise, the abomination of desolation is not found in the Old Testament anywhere except for Daniel.
So, when Paul taught the Thesslonian believers about the abomination of desolation he would have taught from Daniel, his knowledge of the Olivet Discourse, and/or personal revelation from Christ. The enmity between the seed of the woman (i.e Christ) and the seed of the serpent (i.e. Antichrist) has found its expression in an ongoing cosmic war between God and the Devil. This includes the coming of Nephilim and corruption of all flesh during Noah’s day. It appeared when Nimrod led the world in open rebellion against God. The Devil tried to exert his rule in two failed attempts to carry out the abomination of desolation during the time of Antiochus Ephiphanes and also in 70 AD, when Herod’s temple was destroyed. But Satan was restrained because these were not the time appointed by God.
That is true.
One question for you though. Where in the Bible does it say that the events of 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 are pre-tribulation? To me, it looks like it is what happens at the second coming. Where do those who believe in the Rapture believe it is pre-trib?
Thanks
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