David Rohl : Greek Dark Age, Hyksos Invasion and Sea Peoples

--> YouTube-Generated Transcript <--
0:00 · [Music] all right hello V BM V kichi it's time for the Army Inquisition yet again
0:06 · episode 178 on Sunday the 4th of April Easter Sunday I'm arish
0:13 · Phil I'm arish Ben I'm arish Matt and tonight's guest is egyptologist and
0:18 · author David R how we doing David and I on Miss David I'm doing fine thank you
0:23 · very much good to have you I've got a book you always here on the counter and you said don't get that one it's rubing
0:30 · yeah I did actually yeah especially the paperback at least you could have got the heart
0:35 · back I was looking through your your books and uh looking at synopsises and whatever and I thought crack it this is
0:42 · right up my alley ancient history theology sort of alternate
0:47 · timelines where you where have you been all my life probably working damn hard writing those books I guess and more to
0:55 · the point is Where Have You Been during my life exactly yeah I mean I um you
1:00 · know I'm sorry to say I've only recently become familiar with your work and looking forward to really getting stuck
1:05 · into it oh well when were you born 1983 uh well yeah you probably were
1:11 · about nine years old when I did my first TV series so that's probably why you missed me you're out playing footy all
1:16 · the time yes yeah um a one of the sort of areas of your work that really
1:23 · interests me is this chronology this alternate chronology with ancient Egypt so could you maybe tell us about that
1:30 · and uh so how it differs from the traditional chronology and sure well I I
1:35 · started with all this um when I read a book by Professor Kenneth kitchen from Liverpool which is called the third
1:41 · intermediate period in Egypt and it was a little blue book but it was really thick and it was the first time that any
1:47 · scholar egyptologist had put together all the data from one particular period of Egyptian history which is from the
1:53 · 21st dnasty all the way through to the 25th we call it the third intermediate period now when I was at University you
1:59 · didn't touch that with a barge pole cuz it was so bloody complicated that nobody wanted to teach it so they jump from the
2:05 · New Kingdom across to the sort of late late period would ignoring this period completely that interested me because I
2:10 · wondered why they were so scared to do it and I this book came out and it was gave everybody an opportunity to look at
2:17 · all the data together and looking how kitchen had constructed the technology for those dynasties and I could see
2:23 · there were lots of problems with it so I thought right now this the the methodology was wrong to start off with
2:30 · he was writing maybe this maybe that and then two chapters later it was a fact and so he built up this sort of like
2:36 · skeletal framework which is basically a sort of Frankenstein's monster and it needed to be dismantled and
2:43 · reconstructed and what I found was the scholars even all the way back to choon
2:48 · you know in the sort of like the 1800s had essentially constructed a history of Egypt which was overextended too long
2:56 · and what that did is if you can imagine a BC PGE you have to work backwards don't you from from sort of like year zero birth of Christ working backwards
3:03 · and they have to unlike today when we have a date which is so many oops was that crackling it's all
3:10 · right are you crackling it's all right is it okay so today we're all right what are we in 2021 that's 2021 years since
3:18 · year zero we can work that out nice and easy but going backwards in time from year zero into the BC Peri is much more
3:23 · difficult you have to construct it all piecing all the evidence together and they basically stretched it out too much
3:29 · it was too easy they left lots of gaps and sort of think oh we'll not worry about them then we'll fill them in later
3:35 · and as a result of that they pushed all the dates before that much much earlier in time so Ramis the second for instance
3:41 · is about 250 years too old compared to where he really should be in the historical timeline does that make any
3:48 · sense yeah so rames the second would be sort of towards the end of the Bronze Age that sort of period wouldn't it well
3:54 · no it doesn't change the archaeology or the time periods in the sense that the Bronze Age and the I AG don't change CU
4:01 · they move with the Egyptians okay cuz the Egyptians are the ones who date those those levels in the sites by
4:07 · artifacts that have Egyptian kings names on them so if you shift the dates of rames down by 250 years you're moving
4:13 · the bronz AG down as well that's what I get nice because what sorry so to be
4:19 · clear so the ancient Egyptian stuff is used to calibrate this sort of timeline
4:25 · and that's why when you find inconsistencies in ancient history this stretches out and has ramifications for
4:32 · different parts of the world the Mediterranean world and periods exactly you've been doing a bit of reading good
4:39 · for you yeah it basically eliminates the Greek Dark Age so post trojian war you
4:44 · know we have this 300 year Dark Age in Egypt in Greek history which doesn't exist it's a a complete fake the Greeks
4:50 · themselves never even heard of a Dark Age It's just we've constructed one based on the fact that their dating is
4:56 · dated via the Egyptian evidence so agam and the and the means for instance are
5:02 · dated by the Egyptian dates not by their own Greek dates the Greeks don't have a chronology they can really work
5:08 · independently of the Egyptian dates same goes for the Bible same goes for Roman history as well so for instance anas who
5:15 · is the last great hero of the Trojan War the surviving Trojan he goes off sails
5:21 · off to Carthage and you know has an affair with Dao but at that time he's already 300 years old so poor old Dao is
5:29 · you know fall in love with a 300 year old Giza don't make any sense at all
5:35 · because Carthage wasn't found founded at 825 BC and the troan war supposed to take place in 1177
5:40 · BC nonsense this is something I asked Eric clle about the anas uh oh you inter
5:47 · Cent did you're excellent yeah the anas foundation myth and I sort of uh twisted
5:52 · his arm and tried to get him to indulge me that this might have been possible well it's only it's only
5:59 · possible if if you revise the timeline yeah because a lot of these founding uh myth well these stories if
6:06 · you like these cultural stories and found in stories they are treated as myth and that and same you can say the
6:11 · same thing for the Bible I guess as well and the a lot of the Israelite history as well definitely but the whole point
6:17 · is the reason why they're founding this and they're not actually real is because the timeline's wrong if you adjust the
6:23 · teline correctly they all come into the archaeological history you can actually see them there we even have documents
6:29 · these people for instance we got letters in the British museum written by King Saul to Pharaoh Aran Aron now that that
6:36 · is impossible on the conventional timeline because they're 300 years separate the two of them that's my bloy yeah it is going
6:44 · back to my mind is completely addled don't worry about it well this is one thing I'm a complete amateur don't
6:51 · although I love ancient history and this sort of this period as well and trying to keep all these things in your head at
6:57 · the same time and then work them towards a timeline is incredibly difficult oh
7:03 · you want to try working with two chronologist the conventional one and the new chology then you get into my
7:08 · state you know I've got a brain divided in two here I have to work with both of them so when you talk to
7:15 · um say a traditional someone who believes in the traditional chronology and we take you mentioned the Greek dark
7:22 · so we have Myer which which during the Trojan War that's the Greek the Bronze
7:29 · Age collaps that seems to be the end of the Myans correct and then we have this Gap and then we have Greece now this is
7:36 · the same geographical area isn't it and are is it your belief that there wasn't the
7:43 · collapse of Meer there was how does that work it did collapse but it didn't have
7:49 · a 300 yard Dark Age to follow it so in other words that yes we know there was a collapse we know that after the Trojan
7:55 · War the mes came back to the pipines and to Greece and then uh according to the
8:01 · Greek history the dorians invaded and and burnt all these um cities like
8:06 · meinian and pineos and places like that they all got burnt and destroyed the problem with that is that in the
8:13 · conventional dating the dorians don't come along for another 200 years so they
8:18 · can't be the guys who destroyed meini they can't be the guys who destroyed palis and Sparta but that is what the
8:25 · Greek stories tell us happened the dorians came along and destroyed the Myans civilization but that can only
8:31 · happen if the Dark Age doesn't exist okay and if you look at all the the genealogies of the Greeks for instance
8:37 · the Spartan Kings they go back to the Dorian Invasion and you can't get them back to that sort of dating it doesn't
8:43 · work that way because we know the dates of those kings and we know how far back they go so they don't go back to the to
8:49 · the period we're talking about that Eric would have you know 1177 BC for the for the fall of of the
8:56 · Bronze Age cultures they they can't go back that far the SP genealogies no this is this is very
9:03 · interesting because of the repercussions it has in our our whole shared Heritage our shared history and our story as
9:10 · Humanity because you know after this well Greek Dark Age or not whichever
9:17 · side of the coin you're on mhm before long you get Homer and then Hess and
9:24 · then we're into ancient Greece and then ancient Rome and then Catholic church and all before know it we're in 2021
9:31 · again this is why this is so important to us it is I mean just take Homer for
9:37 · example because you raised him okay this is a guy who tells the story of the
9:42 · trojian war supposedly 300 years after it took place when Troy was completely
9:48 · destroyed and just a ruin how could he know about the way that the Greeks
9:53 · dressed in their armor how could he know all the details about the sloping walls of Troy the Petrus tried to to run up
10:00 · three times he couldn't know any of that if it was that far apart but if he was only a generation after the Trojan War
10:07 · and he could talk to the people who participated in it then he could get his facts for for his um
10:13 · Iliad uh so it only makes sense if you remove the Dark Age so Homer is just a
10:19 · generation or so after the Trojan War not 300
10:24 · years yeah it certainly makes sense when you when like you say about you rais the detail that that's in The Iliad and uh
10:33 · you know unless it's a work of fabrication but I'm guessing some of I'm guessing a lot of the details in the
10:38 · aliad have been have they been proven to be accurate via archaeology and other
10:43 · means yeah cuz the site is hilic in the troad in that Northwest of
10:50 · of turkey today and and the sloping walls are there they even found arrows penetrating into the cracks between the
10:56 · stones so we know there was a great War they found storage jars inside the city B in the ground for people to store
11:02 · grain in we know that the thing collapsed we know civilization destroyed and was destroyed there and then
11:09 · according to the conventional dating there was a 300E Dark Age where nobody lived there and the people who came back
11:15 · to live there use the same Pottery as the people who left 300 years earlier don't make any sense at all
11:22 · right so there is a cultural um what's the word
11:28 · um what lack of memory no like a continuity
11:33 · a continuity of culture between yes there's a continuity of
11:38 · culture they don't lose the art of writing which is one of the arguments with with the Dark Age they don't
11:44 · suddenly reinvent writing again afterwards there's there's a continuity there there's only a very short period
11:49 · of collapse maybe 40 years at the most and that is where the people are grinding their way back into something
11:55 · we call the archaic Greek period before the classical Greek period okay so they don't forget how to write
12:01 · they don't forget how to make pottery uh so all those things and the genealogies that the the later Greeks have only go
12:08 · back to a certain date so that dark age is is a manufacturer of Egyptian
12:13 · chronology because what happened was have you heard of a guy called Flinders Petri yeah yeah the great Egyptian
12:19 · archaeologist or English egyptologist who was the great archaeologist well he found my potri T Lana which is where
12:27 · Aran Artin was the king and that M and pottery match what the pit schleman found at minini okay so therefore meini
12:35 · has been dated by the dates that the egyptologist give to Aran arton that's how we get the Bronze Age pushed back by
12:42 · 300 years right we just it seems to be that we're just over reliant on the Egyptian
12:48 · chronology for for everything dead right and everything is calibrated via that
12:54 · that's really well it is except now of course they have radiocarbon dating which they use to bolster the dates but
13:00 · that's a whole other issue uh the problem with radiocarbon dating it's specifically calibrated radiocarbon
13:06 · dating that's the problem but if you simply work back through Egyptian history and archaeology you do not get
13:13 · Ramy II at 1279 BC which is where Kenneth kitchen for instance would put him is much more likely to be around um
13:20 · 979 around that time so it's about a 300E movement downwards of his dates and
13:27 · everything that goes with it then is consequential for the Bible because the biblical dates are independent they are
13:32 · not dated by Egyptian dates yes so this is something a different tool we can use
13:38 · to calibrate although you know since I was a young lad everyone told me that it was um a total mythology and there was
13:45 · no historical basis in the Old Testament I mean for example I remember asking Mr
13:51 · Klein Professor Klein rather who was the uh who was likely to have been the
13:57 · Pharaoh in in the exod story right and he would probably have said to you ram
14:03 · the second but it never happened right right that's what they do let me tell
14:09 · you a little sort of circular argument which is really interesting right now in the Bible the very first pharaoh to be
14:15 · given a name is a pharaoh called shishak yeah now shishak is a king who
14:22 · five years after Solomon has died marches into Judah and plunders the Temple of Jerusalem in what in year five
14:28 · of King re B the son of Solomon okay now what the Egyptian toist do was they
14:33 · actually say oh this name shishak sounds a bit like shoen so they they trundle off to carak and they look at this big
14:40 · inscription uh by King shosen shosen the first and what H is that still crackling
14:45 · are you hearing those cracklings or not or is it just me it's it's only for a second it's nothing to worry about all right I'll keep going then okay so so
14:52 · what happens is then is they date shishak shosen they've equated the two
14:58 · guys to 925 BC which is the biblical date for the event of the sacking of the
15:03 · Temple of Solomon so they use the Bible to date the founder of the 22nd Dynasty
15:08 · King shosen I first and then they Tau up all the dates of the Kings before that to reach a date for Ramy II in 1279 BC
15:16 · but then they say okay we've got we got the Phar of The Exodus at 1279 BC but there's no evidence for any Israelites
15:23 · in Egypt at that time and there's no evidence for a Jericho at that time so the whole thing is a myth what you call
15:28 · a found Foundation myth so they use the Bible to date these events of the Exodus
15:34 · and the conquest and Jericho and then they use that date the Egyptian evidence to dismiss the Bible on that point so
15:41 · therefore it's a totally circular argument yeah it's so rameses the second
15:46 · was the pharoh of The Exodus but it never happened explain that explain that to me that it never happened well
15:53 · because the evidence is not there the prime site you have to go to Jericho in the Jordan Valley Jericho was a a ruin
16:01 · for 600 years there was no no City there at all for 600 years and rames is the
16:06 · second is smack in the middle that 600y year period where there was no Jericho so if there was no Jericho for Joshua to
16:13 · destroy then the Israelites never left Egypt in the first place and R the second is not the fair of The Exodus
16:18 · right so this is the story of the is it wasn't it the march in the Ark of the Covenant round the walls of Jericho
16:24 · round and and the walls collapsed they went up into the city they burned the whole city and then Joshua put a curse
16:31 · on it which lasted 600 years so in the middle of that 600 years you got rames
16:36 · the second and the Exodus in the conventional scheme don't work right so I think it what was it it was
16:43 · one of one of the Israeli arul archaeologist that said Joshua destroyed a city that wasn't even there right and
16:50 · that's how it's imbued into the conventional chronology at the moment now but if you take it a different way
16:56 · you say well okay let's go to Jer let's find out when it was destroyed and then the 600 years of with nothing there
17:04 · and that is at the end of the middle Bronze Age it's not the end of the late Bronze Age that's when that City was
17:10 · destroyed right middle Bronze Age yeah and if it's at the end of the middle
17:15 · Bronze Age then the Exodus took place in the towards the end of the middle Bronze Age not the late Bronze Age and how does
17:22 · that TI in with the biblical chronology perfectly well the date that
17:28 · the Bible gives to the Exodus is 1446 BC okay now if you take those 300E Dark Age
17:35 · out that we talked about in Greece and Egyptian history the 32 mediate Peri gets collapsed down is shorter that
17:42 · means that 1446 BC is right at the end of the 13th Dynasty in Egypt that's when
17:48 · the hicko invade and the whole thing goes pear-shaped oh now this is interesting because I've heard read
17:55 · different ideas about the hick off and that they could have been a sub people they were they came from Canaan no doubt
18:02 · about that but what we're saying is that the Exodus took place Egypt was crushed by it the Army was drowned in the Reed
18:09 · sea they had no defense and to and then this is in the reign of a king dudos or tus Mano mentions him and then these
18:17 · foreigners come in in their chariots and they take over the place and there's no egyptian Army to defend the country and
18:23 · there's like 150 years of Oppression of the Egyptians by these foreigners yeah this is interesting uh
18:29 · period of of part of this period of History the hios invasion of Egypt and
18:35 · it it breaks up isn't isn't there there's the different D um dynasties
18:40 · might be the wrong word but King Kingdom Period you have Middle Kingdom and then and then you have the lake the New
18:46 · Kingdom in between we have something called the second intermediate period which is the hios period And basically
18:51 · it's a time when egyp was not a unified country that's what it basically means right so did the hick just have uh
18:59 · Egypt then they did for the beginning there there's two periods of hixus what we call the early hixus and the and the
19:05 · greater hixus so the early hixus are the ones that come in in the first place and take over the country and then later on
19:11 · we have what called the big Dynasty the greater hixus Dynasty with the big names in the pus and cayenne and all those big
19:17 · guys we're great trading Kings so they come along and they take over and they rule the last hund and something years
19:23 · of this this extended period and they are the guys that eventually take over the South as well as well and they make
19:29 · the Egyptian pharaohs that are living down there the vassals of their lot up in the north so they have to pay and
19:36 · that's when the big war starts the big Civil War so we end up with the thians eventually coming along and pushing the
19:43 · hix out into Canaan and they become the Philistines of the Bible is there any uh do you think
19:50 · there's any link between the hios rulers and other big patriotic figures in the
19:57 · Bible like Joseph no CU he has to come earlier if you think that the Exodus takes place at the
20:03 · end of the 13th Dynasty and then the hixus come in then the hios are later than the time of Joseph Joseph 215 years
20:11 · before The Exodus okay this is where my head gets boggled it's trying to get fit
20:16 · all this stuff in my head it hurts oh never mind take a pill don't worry about it we're talking about Joseph at the end
20:24 · of the 12th Dynasty he's a pharaoh sorry he's the the guy who comes in when a
20:30 · king called amenemhat the third is the Pharaoh he's a great ruler rules for a long period of time and in his period
20:36 · there was a bad terrible famine so it all fits together and so the Israelites are in Egypt for 250 years what we call
20:42 · the sodun period which is from the end of the 12th Dynasty to the end of the 13th Dynasty that's how it works and
20:48 · then you have the the hickor period they're wandering around in in the in the Israelites are wandering around in
20:53 · Sinai for 40 years they then conquer the promised land they take over they destroy J IO they burn all the other
20:59 · cities hatsa and other places and then that's the judges period that takes all the way all the way through to the
21:05 · king's Soul David and Solomon so that's another 48 years that don't forget the Bible says that in the third or fourth
21:12 · year of Solomon's Reign he sets the foundation stone for the Temple of Jerusalem Temple of Yahweh in Jerusalem
21:20 · so and it's 4 year 480 years from the time of The Exodus so he can work
21:25 · backwards from that date to get to 144 6 BC for The Exodus clear as
21:33 · mud maybe for you for a pro well no no really to be honest with you I'm getting
21:38 · a bit old for it it bends my head trying to I used to be really sharp when I was younger but I'm not so sharp now I'm
21:44 · afraid you mentioned um Solomon's Temple there um if there was one ancient
21:50 · building that you could visit in its pomp at its at its grandest where do you
21:56 · where would you really like to visit it wouldn't be the Temple of Solomon I think it would be the
22:02 · Labyrinth at haara one of the greatest SP herodicus talks it one of the most spectacular buildings ever built and
22:09 · it's it's it's called Labyrinth for a good reason because there were literally hundreds of Courts and you could get
22:14 · lost in it now that was built in front of the Pyramid of haara of Ammon mhat
22:20 · III the Pharaoh of Joseph's time so probably Joseph was the architect who
22:25 · designed the libary I would like to go in that and wander around there that I'll probably never come out again but
22:31 · but that would be a real building to go and watch but there are many Fantastic buildings uh in the ancient worlds we
22:37 · know well let's not get on to pyramids please why not oh God pyramid idiots and
22:43 · all that stuff I don't want to get into that aliens building the building pyramids and stuff Ancient Aliens yeah
22:49 · there's a lot of wacky ideas about how they were constructed I mean I think it's just the sheer scale isn't it
22:56 · that ex impressive but think about these people what did they have they didn't have TV they didn't have the
23:03 · internet they didn't spend the whole time messaging people on Facebook or whatever what did they do they moved
23:10 · Stone about that was what they did they moved mod and stone they made mud bricks
23:15 · they cut big stones and they piled them on top of each other that's because they had nothing better to do with their lives some of the uh things rather than
23:22 · the grand things um that have been discovered in Egypt that interest me are these these diorite bowls and some of
23:31 · them have really thin necks fantastic and it just boggles the mind you think
23:37 · how on Earth you know with the technology that they had the the craftsmanship yeah how on Earth they
23:42 · made them why do you think the technology was necessary to do that I
23:47 · mean they had sand they had drills and they had water and you can do amazing
23:53 · things with that if you've got enough time you know some of these fantastic statues you see of Egyptians
23:59 · the the the amount of work goes into those is astonishing also remember that
24:04 · there was you never get anything named by the artist in Egypt you'll never have a signature on anything a statue or a a
24:11 · relief on a wall or a painting in a tomb it's not signed by anybody they didn't have artists they had Craftsmen Artisans
24:19 · and each one did a different part of the process of making the art so for instance a statue would not be made by a
24:26 · single individual a wall painting would not be done by a single painter there' be different painters doing different
24:31 · parts of it you know drawing out the framework for the the shapes of the figures another guy drawing it all
24:37 · correcting it all from red to Black somebody else filling it in cutting back the the relief painting the final final
24:44 · painting on it all those are different guys doing that so it's a it's technology but it's technology in terms
24:51 · of skill rather than what we have today yeah a lot of the conjecture I mean
24:57 · mainly to do with the pyamid as well is that they were built by slaves and I think you you be you're more right
25:03 · saying that it's Craftsmen it's people who were skilled who were pres presumably well paid because they're so
25:09 · good at their jobs no don't forget the economy is not based on coinage at this stage okay so
25:15 · when you say paid what it basically means is they're given certain things but they had something called the corvy
25:21 · system basically the king demanded that the people in The Villages the men would
25:26 · young men would come to work on the pyramid for a 3-month period usually during the inundation or what it might
25:32 · be when they can't Farm but in the time of kufu for instance this Maniac who built the Great Pyramid I mean he
25:39 · actually said no no no no I ended this monstrous pyramid building you ain't going back to your Villages after you've
25:45 · done your three month shift you're sticking it out here mate and you're sticking it out till you drop dead so you might call those slaves although
25:51 · they're Egyptians they've turned from a corv Workforce to a slave Workforce because
25:57 · he wanted his huge egotistical Monument building and he ruined the economy him and his son kren or cafre ruined the
26:04 · economy which is why mik kinos the third king or menar built a much smaller pyramid they couldn't afford to do it
26:10 · after that and after that of course there were Rubble fil pyramids with an outer casing of limestone they couldn't
26:15 · do the job anymore because the the actual economy of the country had been Shattered by these
26:22 · egomaniacs and um is would you say is it accurate to describe them as tombs is
26:27 · that are you of the mind that that's why they were that pharoh kufu wanted it as
26:34 · his final resting place yeah of course they're tombs and what else could they be don't tell me the grain uh yeah power
26:42 · plants no no absolutely not they're just egotistical monuments and they just happened to be to be buried in them but
26:49 · of course they were rsck these PS are rsck by their higu later the hios when
26:54 · they took over the country they Ed these as mining operations they took their time to break in and steal all the stuff
27:02 · inside yeah cuz I presume like Tuton Caron when he was buried he would have
27:07 · been buried with all sorts of incredible grave goods and things to help him in
27:13 · the after life yeah I mean tudan Carman is the one that
27:18 · we do have preserved of what was put in these in in these tombs fortunately because of the fact he was a nobody no
27:25 · everybody forgot about him you know the big tombs were the grandio tombs like Ramy the second is the shattered ruin we
27:31 · have nothing from inside that Tomb at all but you could just imagine the wealth of it you know it's all
27:36 · gone yeah uh just to go back did you see that did you see that fantastic parade
27:42 · yesterday of the mummies going from the museum car museum to the new National M
27:47 · Museum of Civilization fantastic the way the Egyptians today are celebrating
27:53 · those amazing uh Kings and the fact that we have those kings bodies is just a
27:58 · minor miracle you tell me of a a Greek king Agamemnon where's eone where are
28:04 · the Trojan Kings where are the Babylonian Kings they've all gone we don't see any of them the one lot we have are the Egyptian kings of the New
28:11 · Kingdom why is that why specifically do we have the Egyptian kings and not like
28:16 · I said ancient Greeks or R well two things first is first thing is mumification so the bodies are preserved
28:23 · right and the climate allows that cuz they're buried in the desert but the second thing and the most the important thing is at the end of the 20th Dynasty
28:31 · tomb robbers started to go into the Valley of the Kings and and ransack some of the tombs and pull under the king's
28:36 · body so the the last kings of the 20th Dynasty and the kings of the 21st Dynasty decided to sort of bring all the
28:43 · kings together they took them out of their tombs they conveniently stripped them of all their gold of course and
28:49 · removed all the treasures which you know is quite a nice operation if you think you're doing it out of reverence but
28:54 · actually just putting it all in your bank account and then once they've done that they then take them all up into a
28:59 · secret hiding place called The Royal cash and they buried them all together in there and that was discovered uh in
29:05 · the in the 18th century 19th century about the middle of the 19th century by some some guy called The abdar rasul
29:11 · Brothers they the on to found it and the Egyptian government got to hear about it and managed to beat the hell out of these guys to get to tell them where
29:18 · this tomb was and so they went and found the tomb and they found what 30 odd mummies of the royal Royals of the New
29:24 · Kingdom in there and they CED them all down to the British the Egyptian Museum is why we see them today right so you
29:30 · can look upon the face of rameses II and say hello to him but you can't do that with
29:36 · Agamemnon right so they were preserved by uh by later Kings yep absolutely
29:42 · conveniently for them because all the treasures was ripped away yeah well in fact the guy the guy who did it
29:50 · King haror his tomb's never been found so it must be cram full of
29:57 · treasure just to go back to your your new chronology David I was wondering
30:03 · does this affect as well as you mentioned the the removal of the Greek Dark Age yeah does
30:10 · it affect other empires of of like the near East like Babylon the Babylonian
30:15 · timeline syrians okay that's a good question the Babylonians have an independent chronology okay and the
30:22 · Assyrians the Mesopotamian Kings do have a dating system they call the limo lists in other words they they have annual
30:28 · head of uh the government if you like or the the assembly and each year we have those list of named Kings but they only
30:35 · go back to about 91 BC before they start to fragment and we don't have the entire
30:40 · list before that so it's fairly secure up to about 911 BC and after that it's a bit of a problem so they are independent
30:48 · of the Egyptians and so there's a whole chronology that goes side by side but of course the Babylonians only come and the
30:54 · and the Assyrians only come into the Bible story much much like later in in the time of King Ahab and omry and those
31:01 · guys the sort of middle of the what we call the divided monarchy period in other words way after Solomon so they
31:07 · only play a role in dating the biblical or making synchronism with the biblical
31:13 · Kings in that later period for the earlier stuff we have the relationship between the Bible uh or the Old
31:19 · Testament and Egypt to work with that's what we work with there right because we
31:24 · we hear about Neo Babylonians Babylonians and Neo Babylonians and
31:30 · Assyrians and Neo Assyrians Neo Assyrians just means new Assyrians new Babylonians basically there are old
31:37 · Assyrian groups ashure and of course in Babylon in Babylon you have the hammer rabi Dynasty going well back to the old
31:43 · Babylonian period you know Hammer Rabbi was a great king and he had this fantastic Library uh of of of tablets
31:50 · which tell the told the story of the Book of Genesis basically they're individual stories but they're certainly
31:55 · very very similar to what we have in the book of genis and presumably this where the Babylonian timeline starts to
32:03 · fragment around 900 is that due to the collapse that Eric Klein talks about no
32:09 · not really it's it's more to do with the fact that the eponym list that we have are not preserved for that period in a
32:15 · complete list they're a bit broken up people try to piece it all together and they've done a reasonably good job of it
32:20 · but it's quite complex that period is what we call a dark age in in Mesopotamian history too there's a sort
32:26 · of a period where not quite sure about what's going on for the previous 200 years then it gets more solid again for
32:32 · the earlier period so some some scholars in mesp in history try to overlap those
32:38 · kings like saying them perhaps there was more than one King's line at the same time like there was in Egypt later on as well so it's all in this Dark Age period
32:45 · when we get the confusion yes yeah yeah because I mean yeah we Eric Klein talks
32:52 · about this sort of G7 he calls it of the Mediterranean world where all these sort
32:58 · of successful civilizations are are very well connected via trade and
33:05 · Inter Maring and politically they're connected and uh it's like a domino
33:12 · effect and they sort of down that's what we call the Golden Age
33:17 · yeah the go the late Bron is is the Golden Age with all the kings trading with each other they call each other brother all the rest of it it's a
33:24 · fantastic thing and then these bloody idiot Greeks go off and attack and it all falls to
33:30 · Pieces uh so I mean yeah I mean yes there was a climate issue Eric's
33:36 · absolutely right about that what Eric's done and it's a genius book 1177 he's brought all these elements together the
33:42 · climate the earthquakes the sea people's invasions the the Trojan War and he
33:48 · brought them all together and created a fantastic story which I'm sure he true but what he doesn't do is explain what
33:54 · happened in the next 300 years okay and that's the key is it that
34:00 · big a disaster is it so bad that for 300 years we have nothing or is it simply a
34:05 · fact we've created that 300 years to make that collapse more great than it really was wow that's really interesting
34:12 · hey you brought up that was something I really wanted to ask you the sea people's does does the new chronology
34:17 · affect or uh the identity potential identity identity of the sea peoples
34:23 · yeah because they are post troan war and they are certainly triggered by the Trojan War so most of these these guys
34:31 · that you see in the sea people's group are from the aan or from Coastal Anatolia Coast Coastal turkey okay so
34:38 · they are post Trojan War they're not refugees exactly but they're looking for something new it's been driven by
34:46 · climate change it's been driven by the Trojan War it's been driven by the collapse of Myan civilization all those
34:51 · forces are at work here and the guy who led the invasion down into Egypt down
34:57 · into the in Canaan from that perod is called mopsus okay he is actually uh a guy who
35:05 · was of the generation of the Troian War he he was a king of of Southwest
35:10 · Anatolia okay and he actually LED them and he's actually mentioned in text that we find in Turkey in Anatolia uh and
35:18 · mopsuestia a town on the Eastern side of turkey and the south is actually named after him it means the Heth of mopsus he
35:25 · founded it okay and he apparently was killed at ashalon which is where
35:32 · approximately the Egyptians fought the sea peoples so he's probably one of the leaders who was killed by the Egyptians
35:38 · at the time as far as we can tell but these people are actually migrating as a
35:44 · result of the collapse but primarily because of the Trojan War the effect it had on everybody do you not think any of
35:51 · the ca peoples could have been from further west from Italian Peninsula sard don't personally I don't put the
35:57 · shardana for instance the shardana everybody says oh sardinians yes but was
36:03 · it that they came from Sardinia or they went to Sardinia right because the sard is named
36:09 · after them okay I believe the shardan are from Sardis in Anatolia right yeah
36:15 · okay and what that and that's what the the shadana well what the people of Sardis actually say they say they mated
36:21 · westwards towards Italy so and and we have the the DNA of the cattle from that
36:27 · region has been found in in in ATA in in in Italy so they actually brought their
36:34 · cows with them their bulls with them so that they could bring them to Italy and the atrans were actually descended from
36:39 · the sardinians or the the shardana and part of them went to Sardinia and became
36:44 · and that was named after shardana wow so we're getting back to the sort of founding of Rome and the Italian
36:50 · Peninsula then aren't we absolutely this so-called colonization movement Westward
36:55 · there's no big 300E Gap it comes right after the Trojan War okay so they they fail in their
37:01 · attack upon Egypt and some of them then migrate West and found Carthage in 825 BC okay and that's Dao coming across
37:09 · from from T sidon and TI across there and of course don't forget the Caesars
37:15 · themselves claim to have come from Troy they're descended from the Trojans okay
37:20 · so Julius is ilos and ilos was the willos which is which is the name for
37:26 · Troy ilos or The Iliad okay so he claimed to be descended from Troy so those first five
37:34 · so-called five great seases were actually claiming on their coinage to be descendants of the Trojans it definitely
37:42 · definitely makes sense you talk about people migrating from citis to what was known as a trua if
37:50 · you've just got sort of normadic herdsmen living in Northern Italy for example and then you have a you know
37:56 · refugees or people people escaping a more advanced civilization moving westwards Landing in what is what was
38:04 · known as a tra that they would be advantag they would have advantage to take over they would probably have better farming methods whatnot and
38:11 · because they were the dominant power before before Rome weren't they the atrians the TR exactly and you also have
38:17 · anas coming to Carthage and then coming up to Italy and founding a city called
38:22 · levinia and levinia is the foundation of the so-called Roman kings
38:28 · the Roman kings come from anas so we have the Kings period in Roman history
38:33 · and that of course is Romulus and Remis going on for there about five or six Kings then we have the Republic then we
38:38 · have the Emperors okay so it the Empire period so it all stems from inas coming
38:44 · to um to Western Italy and the sardinians or the shardana going to
38:50 · slightly further north and and they they are rusans and you also have them in Sardinia so yet this movement westwards
38:58 · is all post Trojan War and would this be related there was
39:03 · um a sort of Greek expansion to Italy wasn't there before the Roman Empire there was Greek settlements all over the
39:09 · Italian Peninsula would this be related as well they are related they are they are the foundation of the Greeks moving
39:16 · westwards absolutely and that again there's no 300E Gap we call it the colonization movement so you have the
39:22 · Trojan War you have a 300-year dark age and you have the colonization movement which is the West mement of the Greeks
39:28 · and the and the Phoenicians okay but if you get rid of the trojian war it happens IM sorry you get rid of the Dark
39:33 · Age it happens immediately after the Trojan War makes complete sense to me I'm sold
39:39 · it justes to me too Eric doesn't buy it Eric doesn't bu because he's fixed on Egyptian chology what he accepts it what
39:46 · has been the reception in Academia to your work it's it's a long story really
39:53 · I mean I started this in the 1970s okay and then I did sort of like
39:58 · the book came out and everybody went crazy the first book attested time we had the feris and Kings TV series and
40:04 · they all thought load of rubbish this is the academics of course but the rest of the population loved it they didn't like
40:10 · that at all you know I was it the fact that you got this cranky old egyptology well I wasn't actually young at the time
40:17 · but anyway this this this this egyptology who got to number two in the Sunday Times bestseller list for eight
40:22 · weeks and the only reason I didn't get back to number one was cuz that silly um American who was writing about the
40:29 · stories from a small island whatever he was called he sat on number one spot for the eight weeks and could I couldn't get
40:35 · there couldn't get to number one but they've never had an egyptology book sitting at number two in the bestsellers
40:40 · list for that long so they didn't like that at all uh but so yes so you had a lot of criticisms uh the guys who were
40:48 · at University with me though PhD um students now professors themselves and
40:53 · doctors they were quite keen on it so the younger ones came along and funny enough the more senior ones the really
40:59 · the ones that are now my age that were in those days my age um they were
41:05 · actually much more up and minded to it was the middle ranking ones that didn't like it too much you know like the
41:10 · people at the British Museum and stuff like they didn't like it very much the British museum banned my book they would
41:18 · they would they wouldn't sell it in the British museum book shop they refused to sell it so there you go so as I mature
41:26 · and as they mature as the world matures people are beginning you know to think of it's quite quite interesting quite a
41:32 · novel idea what they do do is what they say now is well all your Exodus stuff is
41:37 · fantastic and it all works and you found Joseph and all the rest of it but what about the rest of it that goes after
41:42 · that that doesn't work does it which is why I'm now writing these books about filling in the gap between the Exodus all the way through to the the the kings
41:49 · in the Bible and Egyptian history and trying to piece that whole thing together to show it does work for the whole
41:55 · period you mentioned the new book there tell us about the new book is that a Guinness you've got there it's not it is
42:01 · a tonger oh snap autic the um tra one
42:09 · isn't it you are you been drawn to Alo because of what I'm talking to you about it's genuine Belgian Abby beer oh is it you
42:18 · can't cope you're hitting the bottle no it's a bank holiday let me off oh is it
42:23 · all right then is that why I'm on today cuz it's a bank holiday
42:30 · I showed you earlier on before you went on a and you know you got to see this because your your viewers must read that
42:35 · you've got to read that there you know that's what it's all about really isn't it everybody every egyptologist has one
42:41 · of these mugs so you've had so you've been given
42:48 · a bit of a rough ride by the traditional Egypt I'm a mancunian for God's sakes I
42:53 · can handle it you can be a Manchester United supporter you can take all sorts of [ __ ] no problems there was a famous
43:00 · quote I think it might have been feeman who said something about uh what was it science progresses at the death of a
43:07 · professor or something I can't remember yeah there's that one isn't there one I think it was Max plank or somebody like
43:13 · anyway who who said that a new idea when it's introduced to Academia they first
43:19 · of all reject it utterly and and all it nonsense and then later on when that
43:25 · generation has died off the new generation comes along and says well it actually isn't nonsense after all and that's the thing is you've got
43:31 · to wait for a generation to go look at continental drift theory look how long it took for that to get accepted the it
43:39 · was like 25 years or so before people started to realize it made sense yeah
43:44 · science is very good at making small steps but you know you you have to admit
43:49 · that what you're proposing is a giant leap isn't it it's extremely radical no
43:55 · doubt about that and I was well aware of it it was Radical right from the start I mean one one of the great concerns I had
44:01 · was that um people wouldn't take me seriously um so I went and so I've been
44:06 · doing all this research as the 1970s so um I went and actually got to University
44:12 · to actually get all the qualifications so they couldn't turn around and say that I was like another madman you know
44:17 · because I'd done the thing I'd done the research I know the methodologies and all the rest of it so I spent well a
44:24 · long time at University I got my ba and I went on to to do an Ma and then I was
44:30 · I nearly completed the PHD but unfortunately what happened with the PHD was that I went and gave a lecture to
44:37 · the Egypt expiration Society in London which is the big egyptology group in the UK and there was a literary agent uh in
44:45 · the audience I didn't know he was there and at the end of the lecture I talked about the chronology and all the rest of it and then he came up to me at the end
44:51 · when everybody had gone and said do you have representation does anybody represent you I said no I'm I'm just a student for God's sake you know doing a
44:59 · PhD he said well will you come to my office in Harley Street so oh no it was Baker Street I beg you pardon Baker
45:05 · Street and and um within what eight weeks I'd got a book book publishing
45:12 · contract with random house I got a TV series from Channel 4 I'd got another TV
45:17 · series from Discovery Channel in America they flew me over to to meet the head of Discovery Channel and we did a whole thing there and I got I got a number two
45:24 · bestseller in the charts and so turned around and said well hang on a minute that was your PhD you cannot and according to to the
45:32 · rules at London University you cannot pre-publish your PhD so although I was collecting nice
45:39 · lots of do for doing all this stuff okay they said oh well if you're going to continue your PhD you have to completely
45:44 · change it to another subject I all s off yeah you don't you don't really need
45:50 · it at that point I didn't I didn't need it I had new book contracts I had fulfillments I had lecture tours and all
45:56 · sorts of stuff going on so I couldn't start again you know doing something like a book a PhD on Pharaoh's flowers
46:03 · or something you know which is what one PhD was famously uh
46:08 · labeled there was there was another PhD a brilliant PhD that I remember from an Israeli specialist who student she was a
46:15 · really brilliant student and she did her entire five years research on scratch
46:21 · marks on sickle blades um you know ass's Jaws that would used for cutting down
46:28 · corn she was and she microscopically analyzed The Blaze to look at the scratch marks to find out whether the
46:35 · the blades were cut down with a left to right action or a right to left action that was her entire PhD and and when she
46:42 · pres presented it to the to the audience I put my hand up and said what if they're left-handed she said oh I'd
46:49 · never thought of that and so obviously if a left-handed person does it you
46:54 · can't you can't tell whether scratches are from One Direction or the other so that's what phds are they're really a
47:02 · rather strange thing phds this is one of the great advantages of modern science
47:08 · but I also think it's one of our Achilles heels is this hyp specialization that we have sure we need
47:15 · more people who are synthesizing and looking at the bigger picture and multidisiplinary
47:21 · multidisiplinary exactly that's why I founded the institute for the study of interdisiplinary science
47:28 · because it's precisely that it's bringing together Specialists from different Sciences different disciplines
47:34 · to work together toward to try to achieve an aim and that's really where I am I'm a multi-disciplinarian I'm not a
47:41 · specialist in any one area so I you know I know a little bit about Greek history archaeology Anatolian archology
47:48 · Mesopotamian archaeology levantine archaeology I did a lot of this at University and of course Old Testament
47:54 · um scholarship Egypt ology Egyptian archaeology all those things are all and
48:00 · I actually did also a bit of Roman as well so I have a mixture of stuff and I've got a broad uh understanding of the
48:07 · whole thing you need to do that to integrate it all yeah because it's all connected it is all connected but a lot
48:12 · of disciplines are not connected this is the problem yeah they don't talk to each other a lot of the time although it's
48:18 · changing now it didn't used to be like it is now it looks to be much more difficult to talk to a Mesopotamian
48:23 · scholar or to talk to a Greek um mean scholar or minoan scholar for instance
48:29 · you know I remember Professor Kum I used to go to his um fantastic seminars on M and Mino and archaeology and they were
48:36 · wonderful because he was integrating the Myan cultures with the Mano cultures and seeing how they all integrated and work
48:42 · together and he was a great scholar he still is of course um one of the things I wanted to
48:47 · ask you about which I've asked previous experts in the ancient world and it's
48:54 · one of these things that nags at me is this question of longevity in the ancient world
49:00 · because a lot of people I guess like me we grew up with this idea in our head
49:06 · that in the ancient world everyone got to 35 and then dropped dead and it seems to me that you know I
49:14 · was read um if you take ramse the second or Sophocles you can find verious
49:20 · examples of people living to the age of 90 what's what's your view what's your view on longevity
49:27 · well yeah the trouble is you then get into the thing like you know what about the patriarchal ages you know so all
49:32 · right Joseph 110 years I can just about buy that especially have Egyptian texts
49:38 · saying the perfect age is 110 years so we actually have ancient documents saying that so that was what people
49:45 · aimed for not what they achieved what they aimed for and then you've got others in the Bible you know what people
49:52 · the early Patriarchs in Genesis just you know 900 years meth you know what do
49:58 · that mean for God's sakes so it's a problem however you're right in the first thing you said which is when you
50:04 · analyzed the cemeteries uh in Egypt the Roman ones and even the earlier ones at avaris in
50:11 · the middle Bronze Age right the typical age that people reached adults age was
50:16 · around 32 for men and 35 for women right
50:21 · that was the average okay and that's eliminating all the infant burials that took place earlier so if if you managed
50:27 · to get to 10 then you classified as an adult and if you look at those well they're talking about a typical average
50:33 · age of about 35 years maximum but we do have others people that obviously lived
50:39 · longer than that well you can't compare Rami thei with his diet to some farmer
50:46 · down the road because ramish I second was looked after look at our Queen now look at her age look at PR you know the
50:54 · her husband look at their age ages now they're not typical although we are getting some people living to that age
51:00 · but it's all to do with diet and how you looked after and what you have to do in life how how hard your life was these
51:06 · guys who are living in avaris and the middle bronze AG they had a terrible life you could tell from their bones
51:12 · they've been analized you know they have Harris lines in them they're they're partially starving they're hungry they're overworked they are probably
51:19 · slaves okay and they're probably Hebrew slaves so you know because this is the time we've got the sodian and the
51:25 · slavery period so yes they will have short lifespans I Can't Tell You Why the
51:31 · Bible says and some of the saman Kings lists say that people lived for hundreds of years I can't tell you why that is I
51:38 · have no idea no no it was more the general average farmer I'm thinking of and what
51:45 · you say makes sense that it's it's the general hardship of the conditions that they're living in if I went back to that
51:52 · period and lived in a family at that time then the The Daily Grind of life
51:59 · and the lack of provision would see me off in my mid-30s more you know
52:04 · absolutely but if you're a noble and you have a different diet and you're not working in the fields you'll live a lot
52:09 · longer yeah but it's very interesting you see because then you have to think about Family Planning because if your
52:15 · life expectancy is 35 when are you going to start thinking about
52:21 · children at the age of 12 13 14 yeah going to
52:27 · 30 you're not going to hang around till your 30 are you to have children so you know you've got to think
52:33 · about that element of it as well so when you're thinking about how long a generation is and don't forget Define a
52:38 · generation it's it's from your birth to the birth of your eldest surviving son
52:44 · that is a generation and you need to get that male the surviving male to live
52:49 · before you pop pop your clogs all right so you're starting to have children at the age of 13 14 you may get
52:57 · after your second or third attempt you may get a a surviving male Heir okay but
53:02 · then you know you're probably 19 at that point you've got to raise that kid before you die so you've got to think
53:08 · about those sorts of things when you think about how long a generation was because we have genealogies ancient genealogies and
53:14 · you've got to work out what is a generation and I reckon a generation is about 22 to 23 years maximum it's not 30
53:22 · or 40 like the Greeks would say um so you know so you've got a a generation
53:27 · that long and if you then add them all up together you get a chronology or at least you get a a general chronology of
53:32 · the time period using these genealogies I suppose part of the problem is is that we have more written evid evidence for
53:39 · Nobles and kings and such like in in how they lived and What maybe their general standard of living is do we have much
53:46 · written evidence you know I'm guessing most of these farmers in the ancient world weren't even literate no they
53:52 · weren't so when you look at Egyptian temples what what do you have on the outside walls of the temple where the
53:59 · common folk could go you have the front page of the Sun
54:04 · newspaper okay so you have big paintings of the Pharaoh in his chariots smiting the enemies and those of texts but they
54:11 · can't read the bloody text they just look at the big pictures that's what their job is they weren't inside they
54:17 · weren't allowed inside the temples so those those are the newspapers of the day those those outer walls of the
54:23 · temples with all these big reliefs on of the campaigns of the the king shown how proud great they were and what who the
54:28 · enemy were that they defeated that's what the ordinary folks saw the intellectuals the readers they could go
54:34 · inside the temple the priests and the officials could go inside the temple and read the inscriptions there the
54:39 · historical records then they could do the reading but of course then they had plays they performed in front of the
54:45 · temples the events so the king would you know he would bring back a few captives
54:51 · from a battle somewhere and he'd grab the this guy by the hair and he'd smack him on the head with a with a mace and
54:57 · crush his head in and the people R Applause that's what the ceremonial war was for them in front so they could get
55:04 · these plays these enactments of the king doing his job that he'd done 50 miles up north in in
55:10 · Levant bread and circuses absolutely that's what they came for that's what they came to see I'm sure they were
55:16 · doing that all the time did they have like in in Egypt did they have like an equivalent of the the
55:22 · amphitheaters nothing like that as far as we know we don't have any structures like that but they would have used the
55:27 · temple for courts in front of the pylons as their staging for the populations so
55:33 · that I'm sure they had ritual killings I'm sure that happened uh the king or his officials would Smite their enemies
55:40 · in front of crowds that they brought back from these these battles and presumably would there have
55:46 · been like public um capital punishment and corporal punishment in ancient Egypt
55:52 · I'm sure there was there's no doubt about that I mean let's face it the ancient will was not a pleasant place
55:58 · you know I mean most you wouldn't want to live there because as you say life expecting was pretty short and that's another reason why life expected he was
56:04 · short because you'd end up getting killed pretty quick if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time look at the citizens of Jericho 2000m
56:12 · slaughtered by Joshua and his people you know so it wasn't a pretty place to be
56:17 · to be honest if you were lucky enough to be a noble you could probably have a decent life but if you weren't if you
56:22 · were in the Army and you were actually you know part of that and you were sent off to go and fight a war somewhere you
56:27 · didn't want to fight you probably wouldn't survive that no it makes you wonder how people
56:34 · cul back in those days even with just average day-to-day life the fortitude I
56:40 · mean I guess it's just a a basic survival Instinct is it do you think well it's that and it's this word life
56:47 · expectancy it's what you expect we don't expect to die at 35 we
56:54 · expect to die at 7580 so it's what you expect if you know your life is on be 35 years you live it to
57:01 · the the best you possibly can you don't expect it to be much greater than that unless you're a noble did did they have
57:07 · time for for recreation in ancient Egypt what what would they do sex and drugs
57:13 · and drinking what drugs well I don't asking for a friend we don't know they
57:19 · had beard don't forget um but yeah I mean they get pissed as NES I mean they were really
57:25 · they used to hour to celebrate there was a festival called the Festival of drunkenness which is dedicated the
57:32 · goddess hat the mother goddess the cow goddess the golden cow basically or the golden calf she was actually uh and and
57:38 · they would just have debauchery for 24 hours they just go Bonkers with it you know they'd have sex with everybody else
57:44 · that they'd all play instruments and sing and get pissed and all the thing and they wake up with a ginormous
57:49 · headach the next morning and that's what's happening with a golden Cal at Sinai cu the Israelites
57:55 · who were in Egypt as slaves had not forgotten that ritual and when Moses tried to tell them to behave and he went
58:01 · up the mountain for 40 days they ended up getting pissed and having sex in front of the golden Cal which is
58:07 · hat do you um do you think they were drinking traditional or standard alcohol
58:14 · or do you think that it was spiked with psychedelics I wouldn't know uh it
58:20 · depends on where you get these drugs from because don't forget there's probably no contact with Americas at
58:25 · this time so depends on what's available opium is certainly available and we know that that was coming from CIT and places
58:31 · like that so they certainly had that but ordinary folk as opposed to the Nobles probably couldn't afford it so they're
58:38 · more likely just to be doing the beer and the sex which is probably enough to be quite honest there was an interesting
58:43 · book came out I think it was last year or it might have been the year before by Brian M rescue I think he's called
58:50 · called the immortality key and he's been looking into um the ancient mystery
58:55 · School and he actually referenced Eric Klein's work at T cab cuz I think um they found
59:02 · a big wi wine seller or something at T caby and yeah's he's been his book is
59:08 · sort of making the argument that a lot of this wine that was drunk particularly in the mystery schools was spite with
59:14 · Urgot and it was it was being used as a psychedelic right it's entirely possible
59:21 · the question is where what's your source for these drugs that's the first thing you have to find out isn't it if it's if
59:26 · it's meso America or South America in trouble uh unless you actually believe that there was contest across the
59:32 · Atlantic and we don't really have any evidence to that's to the Phoenicians we we do have a Phoenician shipwreck off
59:38 · the coast of Brazil really caragan yes with carthaginian AER stack stacked
59:43 · inside the boat um so we know the Phoenicians were actually crossing the Atlantic go don't forget they went all
59:49 · the way around Africa and the time of Neco King Neco of Egypt they went they s they navigated the entire Coastline of
59:55 · Africa came back through the Mediterranean again they left Egypt and went all the way around so yeah we know
1:00:00 · that they were there and we have and we say we have this shipwrecker for the coast of Brazil we have Roman um
1:00:06 · terracottas in Mexico so we do have contact across the Atlantic but whether
1:00:12 · it can go back as early as the middle Bronze Age or the late Bronze Age I'm not sure what what year was The
1:00:18 · Phoenician chip Rack in Brazil from roughly it's carthaginian so we're talking probably about seventh century
1:00:24 · something like that s Maybe sixth Century wow yeah it's it's sort of again you
1:00:31 · grown up with this you know you taught in school that Christopher Columbus discovered America you know the Irish
1:00:37 · were there long before that and the Vikings and the Vikings of course yeah
1:00:42 · absolutely so no no no no don't forget you've got currents that take you you can literally go from uh the coast of
1:00:49 · Africa or the stretch of jial and it could take you on a Southern route and all the way across to to the um to the
1:00:54 · Gulf of Mexico no problems you just follow the current yeah you just need to
1:00:59 · see and you return on the Gul the Gulf Stream coming back the other way so I don't have a problem with that
1:01:07 · but whether you could take it back as far as the bronze ages I'm not quite sure about that so it would depend on
1:01:13 · what your source is for the for the materials for your drugs well um tell us about your new
1:01:20 · book before we go because we've gone over an hour already David you got a new book coming out soon haven't you yeah
1:01:26 · the new book I've just finished it uh I just finished the proof reading which took forever it's basically a
1:01:32 · continuation of my last book so the last book was called Exodus myth or history and that did the sort of Exodus all the
1:01:37 · way through to the conquest basically so that was a big book that was published in the states very popular uh and this
1:01:43 · is the continuation now although I do a refresher on what happened in the in the time of the Soden and exodus and
1:01:48 · Conquest with new material that's come up in the last two or three years it then continues on through the judges period all the way through to the time
1:01:54 · of Saul that's first volume in this TW volume book uh and it gives you all the
1:02:00 · archaeology and the connections between the archaeology and the Old Testament Egyptian history to link them all
1:02:05 · together then the SEC volume two which is going to be I've nearly finished it that's going to be coming out a little
1:02:10 · bit later uh that one goes from the time of King David all the way through to the sack of the temple by the
1:02:17 · Babylonians uh in Jerusalem so it will take the whole of Israelite history and
1:02:22 · looking at the archaeology in this new chronology this new timeline that we've created ated looking at where the
1:02:27 · synchronisms are which kings were which who was the Pharaoh whose daughter
1:02:32 · married King Solomon for instance is a question that's addressed it that type of thing and looking at the archaeology
1:02:38 · now they're all color books so they're hardbacks they're 46 pages in size
1:02:43 · they're on art paper they've got like 350 color pictures in there diagrams charts maps The Works uh lots of great
1:02:51 · photos and so it's a book where you can see the evidence for yourself I don't believe in writing a book without
1:02:57 · showing the evidence to the people who are reading the book so those two books will be out probably in the next within
1:03:02 · the next 12 months um and the only trouble is they're probably going to be published in America right which is a
1:03:09 · bit difficult then for the Brits to get hold of copies but then of course we've got the ebooks so people can get a Kindle version or a Mac version of those
1:03:16 · same books and you get all the full color in there so if you can't order the book from the states because it's so expensive to P it
1:03:24 · over
1:03:32 · I think he's back your camera's frozen but are you still there
1:03:41 · David I think he's gone well we've just wrapped up over an hour frozen oh there
1:03:46 · we go are we back yeah your camera's frozen kids your camera's oh you're back I
1:03:53 · think you're back oh mat your camera's frozen too so you're
1:03:58 · all looking very still to me oh we can hear you again that's the
1:04:03 · am thing yeah you're all looking Frozen in time to me you're all
1:04:09 · like oh no oh there you go we're back again should we start again then should
1:04:15 · we start at the beginning again yeah so so this read this new chronology
1:04:20 · David yeah now listen why are we not talking to you other two guys they've not done anything um cuz we just listen
1:04:27 · yeah we're learning but you do that yeah you do that all the time then come on ask me some questions we don't care
1:04:33 · about the time how long's this thing supposed to run for an hour oh can it it can run a bit longer than that can't it
1:04:39 · at least ask me one question for goodness sakes yeah I know you've had a big dinner for your Sunday roast today but come
1:04:45 · on I suppose the question that kind of comes to my mind is um I think you kind
1:04:52 · of Hit Upon it really was when you're talking about sort of um you know it takes a generation before a
1:04:59 · new idea is accepted yeah so do you think a lot of the reason why
1:05:05 · um the new ideas aren't accepted is because people's careers are on the line kind of thing yeah of course it is um
1:05:13 · people who are in universities don't want to start taking on and agreeing
1:05:19 · with very revolutionary ideas and this is revolutionary isn't it you got to admit it's radical okay universities
1:05:25 · aren't radical places okay perhaps in science they are m in science you can be radical but
1:05:32 · I don't think you can in the Arts especially in history
1:05:40 · yeah all right there are some Arts
1:05:45 · you he's just breaking up again it's he on the top of a mountain
1:05:52 · [Music] somewhere if you want [Music]
1:06:02 · in half but Rock I'm going ever accepted there we go I think he's
1:06:09 · back yeah we just got some uh some connection issues but not to
1:06:16 · worry give it a minute
1:06:21 · yeah considering like we've been online now for about a year we've had we have
1:06:27 · not really had any catastrophic failures with the technology well you have no I know what it is it's Eric back over in
1:06:33 · the states he's messing around with the internet he's at the control oh actually
1:06:39 · Eric's a great bloke I actually went and had a debate with him in Washington uh on this whole thing and he was really
1:06:45 · charming and and a really really great scholar so we had great fun debating in front of a huge audience but the only
1:06:52 · trouble is he got two mates along with him so it was three against one that's not very sporting no it wasn't
1:06:58 · exactly he had one Hebrew scholar Hebrew testial scholar he had one egyp egyptologist and of course he's a
1:07:04 · classical historian as well so I was up against it but I I reckon I did quite well anyway so um they couldn't the only
1:07:10 · thing they could come up with his radiocarbon dating it wasn't anything else that he could actually uh challenge
1:07:16 · me on but anyway it was great fun and he's a lovely bloke yeah definitely I think the other thing as
1:07:22 · well is like what we sort of talked about there is that if he's to I think he's still employed by the university
1:07:28 · isn't he I assume he must have is it called 10 year you know where he can kind of get away with yes yeah he's he's
1:07:35 · he's at um George Washington University in Washington DC yeah but I mean he's
1:07:41 · very open-minded actually is Eric they're a lot much much worse than he is um and and he's prepared to listen and
1:07:47 · he fact he actually bought my last book and read it da bugger so you know so
1:07:53 · yeah he he doesn't he doesn't mess around what one of the biggest problems I have with Scholars is they don't know what my work is you know they don't
1:08:00 · actually read it to find out what it is but at least Eric did that you know and that's great that he did that so yeah I
1:08:07 · mean it's it's hard to convince people have their minds uh set really it's quite difficult but I youan know what
1:08:14 · you know what I you know sticks and stones and all that it doesn't really matter to me what matters to me is I'm reaching the people and the people are
1:08:21 · really interested in the subject area and uh yeah that's it you don't have to change the minds of academics do you
1:08:28 · really if you're reaching the the minds of the people well that's absolutely right but look what happened to
1:08:33 · [Laughter] Jesus and then we are at the right time
1:08:39 · of year for that aren't we Good Friday through to Easter Sunday but you know you can you can RI the authorities thank
1:08:47 · God these days they don't crucify people they do it in a literary sense
1:08:52 · yes yes I'm that I would never get for instance I'd never get a paper published
1:08:58 · in a a in a academic uh journal or anything like that it's not going to be possible but you know that's the name of
1:09:05 · the game you just have to play the game I suppose then you know when you mentioned right towards the big in as
1:09:11 · well that there's evidence in the British museum between sort of Correspondence between two kings would
1:09:16 · kind of be unexplainable without um soul and someone else on the Egyptians so
1:09:23 · what's what's the explanation what's there explanation saying that that's okay well the really famous sort of doen
1:09:31 · of Israeli Archaeology is called Israel felstein Tel Aviv University he's the great you know the great archaeologist
1:09:38 · of Israel and he and and what I've done is I've made the time of the the ammana
1:09:44 · period of Aran Artin the same time as King Saul so that's because of the new chronology revision right but in the
1:09:49 · conventional dating they're 300 years apart so Israel finlin writes this great
1:09:54 · article which basically says that Saul is the last laaya and laaya is the name
1:10:00 · of the king who is actually Saul in the alamana letters so he's actually saying they're exactly the same laaya and and
1:10:07 · Saul but they're separated by 300 years so they can't be the same person well I've said well if you take the letters
1:10:12 · of laaya and you learn what he's having to say it matches exactly the story of of Saul and he's fight against the
1:10:19 · Philistines the details are so amazing that they both die in the same place in this in a battle they both both have
1:10:25 · sons who who are consorting with the habiru the Hebrews and that's David and
1:10:31 · Jonathan Jonathan is s's Elder son and Crown Prince and he ends up uh going and
1:10:36 · working with David the rebel the Hebrew Rebel so the stories fit beautifully and and the texts are identical and the
1:10:43 · territories that they rule over are identical but of course finlin cannot make them the same person because he he
1:10:49 · beli they're 300 years separated between them so they kind of just saying that it's a coincidence then that those
1:10:55 · basically saying what a remarkable coincidence is what you know so so it is remarkable but
1:11:02 · it's actually the same buggers so you've got I mean laaya all
1:11:09 · right doesn't sound much like Soul does it but this name Saul for instance is actually is actually a traditional name
1:11:15 · for him it's not the name he was born with because it means asks for because he was the king asked for by the people
1:11:22 · you know they went to Samuel and said we want a king like all the other nations so he was asked for so that's a traditional name that's not the name he
1:11:28 · was born with the name he was born with is laaya which means the lion of yah and yah is the short form of
1:11:35 · Yahweh wow so and and Solomon Solomon's name means peace that wasn't the name he
1:11:41 · was born with he was called jedadiah okay but he was given to him later so these Kings David might have
1:11:47 · actually had a name that was his name or his name was probably dadua or something like that or dud and that that means the
1:11:54 · Beloved the Beloved lar or whatever it might be so he might have actually got a name that's stuck but the other two
1:12:00 · their names their original names were actually not the names that we get in the Old Testament today but the events
1:12:05 · in their Reigns are the same fascinating oh yeah isn't it you
1:12:13 · look you all look exhausted you probably run out of beer for starters yeah I'm ready for a refill well I'm drinking rum
1:12:21 · tonight so have you finished with me or do you want some more uh was well I
1:12:26 · think we should let you go we've we've done an hour and 15 minutes we don't want to take too much of your time time
1:12:32 · DAV yeah I must admit I feel a bit lethargic today normally I'm much brighter than this I'm sorry Lo I've
1:12:37 · been a bit slow saying come back come back yeah you'll have to come back yeah
1:12:45 · invite me back anytime you like you can talk about whatever you like if you want to talk about early Christianity or the Holy Grail or anything like
1:12:51 · that or the music industry if you to know all the secrets about the music and
1:12:56 · through the dirt and all the rest of it you know just bring me back and I'll talk about it okay absolutely yeah it's
1:13:02 · been great thanks for your time David it's all right it's my my pleasure it's nice to have some Northerners to talk to
1:13:08 · for a change where's where's where's the best place for people to follow you and follow your work oh I don't have silly
1:13:15 · websites and stuff like that so you can just Jo me on Facebook if you want to keep up with all the news is I've got the most fantastic Cruise coming up now
1:13:21 · Cruz from car all the way down to Lua looking at all the stuff that people nor normally don't get to see that's that's
1:13:28 · wonderful that's going out next year um which is good fun and I also do a lot of cruises you know big ship cruises so I
1:13:34 · do Le on them so if you've got loads of money and you don't mind going on on the
1:13:39 · sea or on the Nile then you can join me on those and you can have some proper lectures not this nonsense but real
1:13:44 · lectures with loads of visuals I mean I ain't even shown you any visuals you just we've just been chatting yeah so
1:13:51 · and by the way you need to you need to change that wallpaper it really is very very weird on the screen there it's
1:13:58 · all I'll be back in the studio soon so yeah i' I'd get a paintbrush and P you a nice blue or something if I you don't
1:14:06 · tell my wife that oh dear she'll she'll probably slap me if I ever meet her yeah you're you're in the dog house Big Time
1:14:12 · David yeah yeah all right anyway so yes guys it's been great fun you've been a
1:14:17 · laugh so that's that's interesting it's nice to have a laugh occasionally isn't it we're all locked down it's been it's
1:14:23 · been great to meet you David my pleasure and uh just stay on the line for us while we play ourselves out and
1:14:29 · um we'll put the links in the description if uh you know for some of your books people want to follow your work and that have you I'll find it
1:14:37 · don't worry about that all right okay and uh we'll look forward to the new book coming out soon as well yeah in a
1:14:43 · few months all right there's plenty of secondhand books on Amazon don't worry once people are read they don't want to read them again okay all right thanks
1:14:51 · for your time we'll be back in a Flash don't touch that dial bye take
1:14:58 · [Music]
1:15:03 · care

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.