Posted on 02/18/2019 2:07:54 PM PST by jazusamo
Even though I lived in Tucson for years, I never went to the Air Museum until last Friday. It was great, and I intend to go again next year (we go to Tucson each year for the gem show), because I didn’t see nearly all I wanted to.
I’d like to take the Boneyard tour also, though I hear you have to sign up for that a few weeks ahead.
I would have preferred flying an F4
“...Just imagine the billions of dollars paid out for those planes when new.” [jazusamo, post 5]
They didn’t travel direct from the manufacturer to Davis-Monthan. Every type identifiable in the images accompanying the article enjoyed a long and eventful service life.
D-M seems big now, but it was only a tiny fraction of the aircraft demobilization and surplus-disposal effort following the end of the Second World War: the United States aircraft industry produced over 290,000 aircraft for the war. Of these, some 65,000 were lost in action, during transit, and in training. Over 117,000 were declared obsolete or surplus to requirements and sold off as soon as permissible, out of some 150,000 placed into storage. Over 30 locations were established across the southern CONUS, from Arkansas west to California.
Wasteful? Arguably. Just another illustration of the impact to the nation, in its lunkheaded race to disarm.
“...“combatant commander of U.S. Pacific Command” How amusing, an air force guy commanding the fleet...” [OftheOhio, post 36]
Gen Greg Martin may have been the first USAF flag officer formally nominated to command USPACOM, but he was not the first considered.
A USAF general was on track to be formally nominated in the mid 1960s. At the time, the Chiefs of Staff were concerned about inept political prosecution of the intervention in Southeast Asia and several had reached a verbal agreement to resign en masse in disagreement with President Johnson’s policies. When the critical moment came, the CNO reneged; it was later discovered that Johnson Administration operatives had gotten wind of the plans, and had given assurances to the Naval staff that no Air Force candidate would be approved, provided the CNO undercut the group resignation.
Several senior officers admitted this and corroborated the details in their published memoirs.
“...How amusing, an air force guy commanding the fleet...” [OftheOhio, post 36]
USPACOM isn’t just “the fleet.” Its area of responsibility involves a lot more, despite the US Navy’s ongoing case of megalomania, which causes it to insist the Pacific Ocean is its private puddle.
More troublingly, it’s a sign that the senior armed services still can’t accept the fact that the air element cannot help but dominate both land and sea; their only response since 1947 has been “But we’re senior!” They are hobbled by centuries of tradition, incapable of realizing they still think in two dimensions only.
“It’s more than a retirement home for planes from all four branches of the military, NASA, and the U.S. Forest Service”
“all five branches of the military (#5 Coast Guard)”.
I get tired of this. I served in the Coast Guard from 1970-1975, under the same UCMJ and I have VA benefits and a honorable discharge.
Even Lowe’s, only has 4 flags at the checkout area.
Yes, the Coast Guard is not DOD, but they are military.
“Why, it’s only taking up space there”
yeah, you’d actually be saving them money ...
I still don’t believe it, lol. I was an AIR GUY. Everything from j-79s to watching a B-1 bomber take it’s last flight to the Air Force museum. A leader in my own field of hypersonics. What do I know about the fleet, nada. Perfect example.
“More troublingly, it’s a sign that the senior armed services still can’t accept the fact that the air element cannot help but dominate both land and sea” That once was a very true statement. I was in the largest Phantom squadron ever. My very first comment reflected on that, and the enemy from within.
If you go on a weekday and arrive when the Museum opens, you can usually get a seat on a later in the day tour.
Good to know, thanks. I think we’ll try that next year.
Interesting. Wonder who the leadership was. LeMay was CSAF from 1961 to 1965. There’s no doubt he would have loved to see an AF General head of PACOM.
“...Seems a certain Massachusetts Laboratory didn’t like having to interface with Wright Patterson because they wanted their own plane...” [OftheOhio, post 12]
“I still don’t believe it...I was an AIR GUY...What do I know about the fleet...” [OftheOhio, post 48]
” ‘... the air element cannot help but dominate...’ ...once was a very true statement...” [OftheOhio, post 49]
If the senior armed services really believed that air power was of no importance, they wouldn’t bother to maintain such large fleets of aircraft nor such extensive development & test capabilities.
But their forces-in-being and their support infrastructure reflect an implacable determination to maintain or improve their status in the bureaucratic rivalries that have marked much of the existence of the organized military, and always will.
I spent over half my active duty career in operational testing and studies-&-analysis: worked with each armed service and the intel agencies. In numerous instances, there wasn’t any choice except to work together. Among numerous duties, it fell to us to provide data to underpin the formulation and updating of doctrine. So we had to familiarize ourselves with the doctrine of US Army, USN and USMC - on top of maintaining understanding of USAF doctrine and everybody’s revision/rewrite processes and timelines.
The senior services were great at their own jobs, but their attitude about other entities in the military establishment was “You support us” - never “How do we combine capabilities to get the best results for the nation overall?” After that, it always became a tussle over who could grab the biggest slice of the pie. Unlovely but impossible to escape - nor even moderate, much.
Rightly regarded by citizens as immature, counterproductive, downright risky.
Various labs, ranges, and other support agencies were not immune. They clashed across service dept lines, and within depts. Your tale in post 12 about the encounter between WPAFB organizations and facilities in Massachusetts (Hanscomb?) could have been written at many earlier points about any two facilities.
I served through the USAF reorgs and the 1990s drawdowns. Rivalries and disagreements got heated. Looking back from our current vantage point, I feel mild surprise that there wasn’t more actual violence.
“Interesting. Wonder who the leadership was...” [Portcall24, post 52]
I’ve thought and thought, but cannot dredge up any more details. A mind is a terrible thing as it wastes away.
Thank you, FRiend. You seem like someone I would have enjoyed working with. “...operational testing and studies-&-analysis” Make it happen **’ers, true words, lol. Most of the continuous parade of base commanders during the 1998-2008 time period that I was exposed to were little more than hatchet men. I watched the senergy of openness and professionalism to attain a goal replaced with being tight lipped about your project for fear of others trying to steal it.
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