Posted on 12/01/2018 6:47:24 PM PST by simpson96
But let's not pretend all parents are good to their children. Some are down right abusive. Both my father and mother's rebellion against Jesus Christ had severe adverse effects on me. And my brother.
Parents involved in demonic activities are hardly worth defending. In fact, I'll be happy to affirm their judgment to eternal damnation next to Christ.
It is by the grace of God Christ stepped into my life. I certainly didn't get it from my parents. In fact-- I got the opposite.
Dad was a real prince too. He pumped a round in his head, but only after writing a manifesto railing against God-- how God "Couldn't keep his accounts straight." That is rich, railing against a god who you insist doesn't exist.
That is poison and is really no different than sacrificing your children to Molech. Santa Claus falls into the same category-- blinding children to the glorious gospel of Christ.
Sure I can. What you're describing as the "spirit of Christmas" is a manufactured set of emotions that is encouraged and perpetuated primarily by the mass media. Remove the cultural clues that it's time to feel this way and there is no such thing as the "spirit" of Christmas.
We can have altruistic feelings any time of the year. In fact Christians should ALWAYS have the high minded ideals that you're espousing. However these attributes, this "fruit of the spirit" (Galatians 5:22) do NOT develop in their true form overnight. It requires time and growth.
The real danger in promoting a belief in a Christmas "spirit" is that it teaches people (incorrectly of course) that they don't need Christ in order to change their hearts. Of course we do need Christ to change our hearts in any meaningful way. So what happens is that people are deceived into thinking that the manufactured emotion that is dredged up in them is something real and permanent. And when it fades then disappointment and cynicism set in once again.
Now if you have no REAL deep seated desire to change your nature...i.e. to go from bad Scrooge to good Scrooge...then the point is moot. Go ahead and get all the emotional fulfillment you need through what are ultimately empty activities. But if someone wants to really change then TRUE worship of God through Christ is the only way.
It wasn't a lie my friend. I just didn't present enough information in order for you to understand my point. I responded from my tablet this morning and couldn't properly address it.
What I was trying to say about the 18th century was that it was time when various writers pulled together various myths nd legends from around the world and molded them into the coherent "Christmas" myth that is observed in America (and elsewhere) today. I'm talking about the prototypical American myth of Santa Claus living at the North Pole with elves and making toys all year long. The taking a sleigh with flying reindeers and delivering presents to kids all over the world. Christmas trees, stockings, etc etc.
I would also postulate that the modern "spirit of Christmas" you referred to earlier was either invented by or at least brought into public consciousness by Charles Dickens in "A Christmas Carol". In that book he used the device of the three "spirits of Christmas" in order to tell the tale of Ebenezer Scrooges change of heart.
Whatever... you might want to invest in some ointment, you are going to get chafed sitting on that high horse so long.
Where were those mass media promoters in the 1600”s I might ask?
Intolerance and a belief that there is only one true path is what gives some Christians a bad name. Their efforts in the name of Christ succeed in pushing people away from his embrace. I daresay more good is done in Christ’s name by the more tolerant less judgemental of us. People are not brought to goodness by admonishments or by eschewing Santa Claus. They are brought to God by seeing his love made manifest.
A real understanding of history appreciates that however myths and legends are clothed they represent universal truths. The fact that elves and reindeer are part of the legend at one time and not at another is irrelevant. St Nicholas has been part of human experience and mythology for 1800 years. The legend has evolved, is different for different times & cultures but it captures a human truth.
I think those universal shared stories, legends, myths are uniquely valuable and give testimony to the truth that humans have been the same clay throughout history, had dreams ambitions, lusts, aspired to goodness, fell to evil. It is the fabric of society woven over centuries and however you may protest, however some may commercialize it Father Christmas is part of the human story and the magic of Christmas is real except for those who turn their backs and deny its power. If you want to live in that sparse world it is your right but you cannot change the reality for others.
No need to read my comments in that way. I am very well aware of every single one of my many shortcomings.
Where were those mass media promoters in the 1600”s I might ask?
In what context?
Intolerance and a belief that there is only one true path is what gives some Christians a bad name.
Well there literally IS only one true path. At least according to the Christian bible which was inspired by God himself.
Their efforts in the name of Christ succeed in pushing people away from his embrace. I daresay more good is done in Christ’s name by the more tolerant less judgemental of us. People are not brought to goodness by admonishments or by eschewing Santa Claus. They are brought to God by seeing his love made manifest.
We might be saying the same thing but they are brought to God because God invites them.
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
I would agree that our lack of love and tolerance CAN and often DOES throw up stumbling blocks to people accepting the call of God.
Listen. I'm NOT attacking Christmas. I'm pointing out reality. You're arguing with me about something that is CLEARLY mythical and has a clear path as to how and why it's celebrated in America and elsewhere today. And you think that my pointing out that God's reality is so much better than the myth of Christmas is going to turn people away from God??
I'm approaching this from a strictly bibilical Christian perspective. And from that perspective God implores his people time after time to NOT follow after the myths and legends of the people who do NOT follow him.
Deu_6:14 You shall not go after other gods, the gods of the peoples who are all around you
Deu_12:30 take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.'
1Ti 4:6 If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed.
1Ti 4:7 But reject profane and old wives' fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness.
What you're talking about is nothing but re-packaged things that God told his people to reject long ago.
I appreciate you reaching out to bridge the gap forming between us. I do not believe there is only one true path. I believe God sees into our hearts and when we reflect his goodness we are closer to him & he is pleased.
While not realizing it or perhaps intending it, by trying to insist that only your view of reality has value you are attacking other ways of experiencing the world and God. This confuses people who do not see their way clearly and turns them away from God. People that are confident know that everyone has their own journey and a relationship with God is personal.
I believe that people have many paths to the light and I believe that the real meaning and spirit of Christmas is the first step on the path for many since it introduces them to the light so young.
I do not denigrate your way I just respond poorly to you sitting in judgement on others’ beliefs and calling them humbug because their beliefs do not speak to you.
Do not leave it to the marketers and merchandisers to give children the meaning of Christmas but teach your children how to transmogrify the magic of the day and keep it in their hearts, teach why that day is magic by examples and by recognizing the selfless acts of others. Use the day for the teaching tool it is rather than calling it anathema.
Be at peace and fare well.
God doesn’t need to speak only through the Bible. The Bible was written by men and different sections interpret the relationship between God and humankind differently.
There is much wisdom there but it needs to be digested and winnowed.
Huh? What issues are you referring to?
For one, blaming your mother for everything under the sun.
You’re the only one who can’t see it.... because you’re too busy being holier than thou.
I am not getting your argument.
My mother was a fool. A stupid cow. She bought into the world system. She imparted faulty thinking onto her children and she was a poor model for anything worthy of imitating. And then she died. Those are facts.
What am I to do, lie and say she was a good mother? Did you know her? She preferred her secret sins over her sons, living life as a harlot because she based her life on Christ being a fairly tale.
How is that my fault?
Don't know what your education is, but parents have a significant impact on their children's formation. Blame? I never said I didn't own my mistakes.
But I damn sure wish my mother/father were equipped to share Jesus with me at 9 years old when I was searching. I remember that vividly. What did I get? A fat man in a red suit. Situational ethics. Flexible morality. Addictions. Unrepentence.
If conservative adults can't agree that supplanting Christ is bad......there is nothing to conserve. The glue holding a moral society together is diminished and eventually fails.
I know. I know.
How dare your mother let you believe in Santy.
Hell, you probably stoned her to death.
The thing about liberals is they can't debate an idea without reverting to personal attacks because they can't defend their stupid ideas.
We are done.
The thing about liberals is they can't debate an idea without reverting to personal attacks because they can't defend their stupid ideas.
We are done.
Boo Hoo
You’ll still have to forgive her....dead or alive. It’s the only way you’ll heal. That being said, I don’t disagree with you about the other stuff. My parents were damaged as well so I know where you are coming from.
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