Posted on 11/18/2017 10:28:57 AM PST by GoldenState_Rose
I never called Russia a paradise. Just pointed out its government is far less anti-Christian than America’s. If you’re a Christian florist or baker, You can’t get fined into bankruptcy for declining to attend a gay wedding in Russia. Here you can. Orphans in Russia can’t be adopted by gay couples. Here they can. In Russia the govt encourages the building of churches as memorials to communisms victims. . Here, cross memorials on public land are ordered to be torn down. Them’s facts
Also the Allies had almost total control in implementing the Marshall Plan. It sincerely doubt that would be the case in early post-Soviet Russia. It would have been just like doing economic development in Africa only it gets very cold. Everything not nailed down, checked and double checked, not under developer control would be stolen, maintenance would be an unknown word and action.
We find it suspicious that you guys spend all your time trying to get the US into a hot war with Russia, while not spending any time trying to actually get our hollowed out military prepared for such a war.
We’d rather fight a war when we’re ready, and when we have something to fight over.
William at the moment American people period cannot adopt from Russia. (And its mostly Christian couples.) I think Laura Ingraham talked about this, herself mother to Russian son.
No! I don’t want war with Russia! I just want people to cherish America more even when she is weak instead of idolizing Putin. And its not by accident that in 2015 alone, nearly 300,000 Russians applied for US Green Card lottery.
Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t think America is some paradise, but as much as they treasure their culture, a lot of young Russians see their futures as blurry and bleak...and they know even “weakened” America still offers more hope.
“No! I don’t want war with Russia!”
Maybe not you, but others here certainly wanted to test just how far we could prod Russia, at least when Obama was president. I had a HUGE PROBLEM with that, particularly when our military was so damn hollowed out by Obama and the RINOs (i.e., sequester anyone).
To this day, we don’t STILL don’t know why we needed to beat the war drums. Crimea is 90% Russian and never belonged to Ukraine - it’s now where it belongs. The areas in East Ukraine are at least 50% Russian and we so damn manipulated by our media that I don’t have any clue as to what they’re fighting over. All I know is that it’s in Russia’s backyard and whether we like it or not, Russia will do whatever they want to do there.
It’s not an either/or situation. It is possible to respect Russia for what it is - a country that protects children from gay propaganda (possibly because of their high HIV rate), and to love America at the same time.
Yes, Russia stopped allowing adoptions from America, partly because they didn’t want gay couples from America adopting their kids
The reason had more to do with a diplomatic tit for tat with the U.S. over geopolitical issues. Not concern over gay couples. The sorry state of their orphanages are telling where the priorities of the leadership is — (esp contrasted with the grotesque opulence of the oligarchs who own the country and keep all their investments/holdings out West.)
If they truly cared, the policy would be to allow good couples (as the majority are) to continue to adopt with additional vetting.
BobL, Crimea’s history goes way further back and actually became majority Russian by way of heavy aggression in the past century/two. Some of the oldest ethnic groups there are persecuted now, like the Tatars. (I hesitate to mention them as I worry people on this forum believe Muslims are warranted lesser treatment even though the ones in Crimea have been there for ages and are hardly radical.)
Not to mention all the Ukrainian religious minorities that were pushed out. (Like Catholic nuns.)
I do not think Crimea should be “given back” - in fact Ukraine is better without it. It solidified their full exit from the neo-Soviet, neo-imperial sphere of Putinist influence. Ukraine wants to merge with European civilization.
All the Lenin statues throughout the country have since been torn down. And JUST yesterday, Western Christmas has been made an official holiday in Ukraine. So now they celebrate both Orthodox (1/7) and Western Christmas!(12/25) They are a spiritual bridge between the Christianities of East and West.
“Meanwhile in Russia” the fesitivites of secular New Year (the Soviet replacement for Christmas) will proceed from Lenin’s mauseoleum in Red Square...where his body still lies in full display. Representing a country that refuses to let go of every poisonous lie he lived for.
1) Look it up: the majority of new foreign ISIS recruits come from where? From Russia. Thats where. Why is a country led by so great a leader fostering such conditions?
2) Putin favors Muslims. He has given full rein to his buddy Kadyrov to basically preside over a theocracy in Chechnya. Putin was present at the grand opening of the latest mosque in Moscow. (Look it up) Muslim migrants from former Soviet states/Central Asia make up for the labor shortfall caused by ethnic Russians’ low birthrate. Muslims from Dagestan and Tatarstan within Russian have higher birthrates than the Slavs.
3) Putin loves Iran in addition to Assad. Putin has once said that Russian Orthodoxy has more in common with Islam than Western Christianity - which is simply an imperial tool meant to quash any Russian attempts to forge an empire. Some of Russia’s wealthiest oligarchs in Putin’s good graces are Muslims from the former Soviet states of places like Uzbekistan.
3) Just as God can use evil men like Assad and Putin to achieve grander spiritual ends, God can also use flawed policies to accomplish His ends. German churches have reported that numerous refugees and children have converted to Christianity. Many seek to return to Syria again when it is safe. Islam is not a “fixed” condition. Do your part and spread the Gospel of Christ especially to the young. (Which by the way Putin does not want you to do as he enacted the Yarovaya Law (2016)- leading to the jailings of US Evangelical missionaries and the cancellation of a global conference in Moscow led by Franklin Graham.)
4) Who is going to make Syria safe? Donald Trump. Not Putin. Stop acting as if Putin acted out of some noble interests. He is neo-Con times 10 but doesnt have the capabilities for it. And Russians are getting fed up with his antics in Syria the way we were with the misadventures of Bush and team in Iraq and elsewhere. They suffer way more domestically than we did.
“Putin favors Muslims. He has given full rein to his buddy Kadyrov to basically preside over a theocracy in Chechnya.”
What’s your solution? Extermination, or a replay of Afghanistan, where Westerners try to drag them out of the Stone Age?
“Putin was present at the grand opening of the latest mosque in Moscow. (Look it up)”
Putin was also present at the grand opening of the Jewish Museum in Moscow. (Look it up). He’s stuck with millions of Muslims and Jews...what is supposed to do - tear it down?
“Muslim migrants from former Soviet states/Central Asia make up for the labor shortfall caused by ethnic Russians’ low birthrate. Muslims from Dagestan and Tatarstan within Russian have higher birthrates than the Slavs.”
Agree, but is that Putin’s fault? Should he instead go to Mexico to find laborers when he has them within his borders.
Believe it or not, not all us Trump supporters want to Muslims exterminated - but we would like to see them cool it with the terrorism.
As far as Iran is concerned - that’s what we get for trying to overthrow Assad. Your gripe is with Hillary/Obama on that...but at least Putin supports his allies (Vietnam, anyone).
I don’t know if Russians are getting fed up with Syria...looks to me that Russia has put an end to the bloodshed there caused by Hillary/Obama and the Neocons. As far as Trump goes, he can’t even order a salad with Russian Dressing without getting the waiter in trouble with Mueller. And that is NOT Putin’s fault.
1) Interestingly, I have seen photographs of Kabul from the 70s (on a Russian website no less) - Modern looking women walking about rather developed surroundings. Don’t know all the history, but the Soviet War there must ripened the environment there for Talibanism. Afghanistan wasn’t always stuck in the Stone Age.
2) Anti-Semitism still rife in Russia. Not everyone, but enough to set the tone. People tie Jewish conspiracies from everything to the founding of evil America (by Masons...Jewish ones) to their own 1917 Revolution.
A peak inside the mind of a history-minded Russian today goes something like:
“Bolsheviks were Jews so therefore everything that followed is their fault....YET it’s bad the Soviet Union fell...AND Stalin was an effective manager who defeated Hitler....OH, but the Jews are evil, they control the dollar....BUT Russia squashed the Nazis. The Soviet Union saved humanity. Long live Lenin!”
Hence the resulting schizophrenia and social psychosis the author of the book “Dead End” speaks of.
Putin relies on leading Jewish bankers, plus a few Jewish oligarchs to uphold his set-up. And in general, it’s not in Putin’s interest for ethno-religious squabbles to destabilize the populace.
3) Russia’s economy hinges on the labor of Muslim migrants, who are out birthing ethnic Russians. This creates social insecurity. So to combat this, Putin’s state-run media diverts attention from their OWN realities, their OWN history with facing terrorism within its borders, towards hyper-coverage of Europe and its struggles - the Rotting West.
Coverage of gay pride parades divert focus from Russia’s HIV epidemic, high divorce rate, domestic violence crisis, catch my drift?!
4) Birthrate dipped following the collapse of the Soviet Union. Despite Putin’s efforts and brief moments of improvement, Russians on the whole still lack long term hope and vision for their futures. If the system weren’t so against average people, I believe the birthrate would be higher yes. So Putin gets some blame.
He’s tackled Russia’s aboriton culture (also a Soviet holdover) but has stopped short of banning it outright due to fear of illegal abortions (also a cultural norm) and massive pushback from the public.
5) Unlike Muslims who are more devoted to their religion and often have languages and cultures separate from Russia — ethnic Russian identity is so wrapped up around the State. In a paternal dependence on those on top, who view them with such disdain. This is part of the problem. It makes any hope for progress or for the people to claim their freedom really difficult.
6) Your perception of Trump as weak compard to Putin only proves the success to which Russian-driven narratives have taken hold of the vacuum in the West for meaningful journalism. The narratives prey upon legitimate, existing weaknesses of ours NOT in service to the Truth, but in service to Putin’s geopolitical life mission: which is to 1) avenge the fall of the Soviet Union (and Russian Empire) and 2) destabilize the United States and the advance of Western values (including the Judeo-Christian ones) around the world.
When I say “advance of Western values” - I don’t mean the military advancement. I mean even the self-determination of nations to pursue democracy and the development of free societies. Hence why Russian leaders + press throw a fit over the fact that Poland and Ukraine had torn down their Lenin and other Soviet era statues.
7) Trump’s inauguration was the biggest slap in the face to Putin, who has spent the entire past two decades convincing his people that American democracy is a sham, not due to Obama, not due to Bush — but at its CORE, from its FOUNDING, is predicated upon false premises.
So the peaceful transfer of power to a most unlikely winner of a populist surge was NOT in fitting with that narrative. Russian elite would have preferred predictable Hillary reign.
They prefer a weak America. Please remember that.
And don’t get me wrong, underneath all the LIES and STRUGGLES, a beautiful, strong and vibrant culture does and will emerge...But not under Putin.
A lot of Hawks ripped on Reagan when he agreed to meet Gorby at Reykjavik.
Ok, the thing is few people Russia under the age of 50 care what people who were in positions of power in the 90’s, when the government was far, far more corrupt and murderous than Putin’s government, have to say about anything. All of those people are permanently tainted in the minds of the young. No movement to reform Russia with people like Andrei Kovalev involved will get any traction. However well meaning this guy is, him and the other 80’s era liberals have no following among the people.
The opposition to Putin today is lead by younger people like Alexander Navalny who have no connections to the Soviet system or the disastrous Yeltsin admin. Strangely, the English language media never talks about the opposition to Putin that exists today, they keep wheeling out these old guys who have no supporters and who were themselves often complicit in massive corruption as if they are relevant.
Navalny has been covered by Economist, WaPo and featured on CBS evening news. Among others. But I agree lamestream media here spends more time focusing on building up fake Trump connections /election hacking stuff.
I have my issues with Navalny as part of the problem is his own lack of presenting a coherent message beyond “corruption is bad. Putin be gone. I will fix everything.” He is rather quiet about the pressing debates of the country as he worries alienating support be it over Ukraine or abortion laws.
But one thing he has accomplished is awakening the Russian youth beyond the two big cities of Moscow and St. Petersburg — and given people in the outer regions and provinces motivation to strive for a better future and know there is a hope beyond Putin.
‘’’’Interestingly, I have seen photographs of Kabul from the 70s (on a Russian website no less) - Modern looking women walking about rather developed surroundings. Don’t know all the history, but the Soviet War there must ripened the environment there for Talibanism. Afghanistan wasn’t always stuck in the Stone Age.’’’’
FYI Afghanistan was in bed with Moscow in 1970s up until Carter’s administration destabilized the secular government. Zbig Brzezinski who was Carter’s advisor admitted to supporting Islamists for the destruction of Afghanistan specifically to lure the Russians who were supposed to come to help Afghans and then ‘give them Vietnam of their own’. That’s not a conspiracy theory. That’s Zbig’s own words. From his interviews it is clear he understoods his action is a cause of 9/11 but no regrets. The deaths of a million Afghans and 3000 Americans is a minor event in a grand scheme of ‘glorious’ events to him.
Blaming the Russians for ‘ripening the environment’ for Taleban is akin blaming Assad’s government for ‘ripening the environment’ for ISIS. We all heard it too. The reality is that both Taleban and ISIS has grown out of groups financed, supported and armed by Carter’s and Obama’s administrations respectively.
‘’’’Anti-Semitism still rife in Russia. Not everyone, but enough to set the tone. People tie Jewish conspiracies from everything to the founding of evil America (by Masons...Jewish ones) to their own 1917 Revolution.’’’’
You need to straighten your agenda. At first you are talking about ‘creeping re-Sovietization’ withing the Russian society and now they are anti-Semites for blaming the Jews for bringing the bug of Sovietization in the first place.
‘’’’Putin, who has spent the entire past two decades convincing his people that American democracy is a sham, not due to Obama, not due to Bush — but at its CORE, from its FOUNDING, is predicated upon false premises’’’’
LOL. I can’t even comment on that. Hillary, is it you?
A peak inside the mind of a history-minded Russian today goes something like:
“Bolsheviks were Jews so therefore everything that followed is their fault....YET it’s bad the Soviet Union fell...AND Stalin was an effective manager who defeated Hitler....OH, but the Jews are evil, they control the dollar....BUT Russia squashed the Nazis. The Soviet Union saved humanity. Long live Lenin!”
Hence the resulting schizophrenia and social psychosis the author of the book “Dead End” speaks of.
As I said.
Quite true. In the first year or two after the fall of the USSR, a Russian exchange professor at the local state university made that same point to me, strongly denouncing US aid to Russia as certain to be stolen and to end up in the pockets of bad people. He did like my idea though and thought that it could work: grant a pension to the members of the WW II generation in the former USSR as an expression of American and European gratitude for their sacrifices in fighting fascism, and couple it with a monthly magazine loaded with soft, pro-Western propaganda. For a relatively small chunk of cash, this would have neutralized the nostalgic, pro-communist sentiment that helped put Russia off track.
Haven’t you though that the people blaming the Jews for Communism and Stalin-lovers belongs to different groups?
No thats the problem! A lot of the people think both irreconcilable things at the same time and cannot make up their minds.
The conundrums = the state of modern Russia in a nutshell.
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