Posted on 11/18/2017 6:36:43 AM PST by iowamark
You are nothing if not a broken record. You routinely post this turd as if anyone here makes such a claim - no one does. It is entirely a red herring of your creation.
“You routinely post this turd as if anyone here makes such a claim - no one does. It is entirely a red herring of your creation.”
Perhaps you missed post 33 on this very thread: “When you pro-Confederates pretend the Civil War “was not about slavery”, by that you mean neither side fought to defend or defeat slavery, right? This song puts the lie to your claims.”
I hate to be persistent, but critic answers critic.
Jeebus but you are slow!
It wasn’t “all about slavery” - except to the southern slavers who started a war over it.
Why are you suddenly surprised to learn that?
And lacking the votes, northern states did the next best thing - took up an army to overthrow the constitution’s slavery provisions, often popularized “as He died to make men holy let us die to make men free.”
No, they took up an army to fight the war that the South forced upon them.
Northern states taking up an army to overthrow the US constitution had an added benefit - the opportunity to destroy - kill you might say - economic and political rivals in the south.
How exactly did they "overthrow the U.S. Constitution"?
There is no need for you to introduce personal rancor. Remember, I have supported (in my post 40) one of your core contentions:
"If what you say is true - and you make a fair case - then we can dismiss the notion that the north was fighting for some high moral cause like “freeing the slaves.” "
You invite it.
When you say “No”, do you mean the North did not fight to “free the slaves.?”
The song, Battle Hymn of the Republic, which is the topic of this thread, states otherwise. The song gives one clear reason for the war: “As He died to make men holy let us die to make men free.” The song actually says little about using federal ports to collect import taxes.
Many millions of people then and now have sung the song vigorously believing the valorous union army was fighting to "free the slaves." If that is not correct, then we can dismiss the notion the North fought for some high moral purposed like ending slavery.
Of course, if the North was fighting because it was in the North's economic and political best self-interest, then, arguably, that was a high moral cause worth killing 600,000 people.
That's correct. I don't know too many people with any knowledge about the Civil War who believe the North fought to end slavery.
The song, Battle Hymn of the Republic, which is the topic of this thread, states otherwise.
And the "Bonnie Blue Flag" says the South was fighting for liberty. Songs on both sides were meant rally people and were not necessarily statements of national policy.
If that is not correct, then we can dismiss the notion the North fought for some high moral purposed like ending slavery.
As a Confederate supporter I can understand how you could see slavery as the only high moral purpose worth fighting over. But you would be wrong. There were others.
Of course, if the North was fighting because it was in the North's economic and political best self-interest, then, arguably, that was a high moral cause worth killing 600,000 people.
And the Confederacy fought to protect slavery. Is that high moral cause worth 600,000 lives?
“And the Confederacy fought to protect slavery.”
If the Confederacy was fighting for slavery, who was fighting against slavery?
They did some “trampling out” in the 1861-65 era killing Christians like Pat Cleburne and States Rights Gist.
"States Rights Gist"? How Christian could his family have been when they named their son after a secular political movement?
I think I went to school with his great-grandson, Unilateral Secession Gist.
Anyway, Gist and Cleburne were killed in battle, along with many thousands of others who were equally religious in the war that Davis and the secessionists started.
There's a parallel between the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" in the US and "Jerusalem" in the UK. Both songs make use of religious imagery and have been proposed as national anthems, but some in the clergy have found them insufficiently orthodox and too focused on this world, rather than the afterlife.
>Anyway, Gist and Cleburne were killed in battle, along with many thousands of others who were equally religious in the war that Davis and the secessionists started.
I forget, who invaded who?
Wars start -- some people start them -- and then countries respond. They don't hold back and say, "Maybe they didn't mean it. Maybe if we do nothing it will all stop."
The US fights back against countries that fight us. The whole Confederate thing of saying "We aren't Americans. We aren't the US. We don't want to be part of your country. ... Wait a minute. Why are you doing this? We're Americans just like you," doesn't work.
When the insurrectionists illegally seized federal properties and threatened United States troops they committed acts of war against the United States.
>When the insurrectionists illegally seized federal properties and threatened United States troops they committed acts of war against the United States.
And yet the first act of the war was moving warships and troops from the north into a fort in the south to threaten the harbor of a Southern city. The North made the first hostile act, Linlcon very good propaganda notwithstanding. There’s a reason it’s called the war of Northern aggression.
There’s a reason it’s called the war of Northern aggression.
And an even better one why they it’s called the war of Southern Treachery.
> And an even better one why they it’s called the war of Southern Treachery.
Really? Who did the South betray? The Revolution war put forward the principle forth people can decide to break the bonds of with their parent nation anytime. In the war of 1820 and the Mexican America war, the south took the brunt of the casualties and made up the majority of the military. If there’s any part of the nation that betrayed the country it was New England who refused to support the war of 1812 and threated to succeed during the war.
The United States of America
Nobody specifically. The end of slavery was a fortunate offshoot of the war but never the reason why the Union was fighting.
>> Really? Who did the South betray?
>The United States of America
Did the United States of America betray Great Britan?
No. Great Britain betrayed the colonists.
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