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70 years after Iwo Jima, veterans, families to honor lives lost
Journal Sentinel ^ | 2/18/15 | Meg Jones

Posted on 02/19/2015 4:19:00 AM PST by Kartographer

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To: oh8eleven
OK, have it your way, there was nothing special about the battle for Iwo.

Hurtgen Forest - 50 Square miles, 30,000 casualties killed and wounded with some of the difficulty being inexperienced units who fell apart during their first severe combat. Approximately two months until secured.

Saipan - 44.6 Square Miles, 3,225 KIA, 13,061 WIA, approximately one month until secured.

Betio - 3.5 Square miles, 920 KIA, 2,200 WIA, secured after three days.

Iwo Jima - 8 Square miles, 6,000 KIA, 25,000 WIA, approximately one month until secured.

On a per square mile basis, Iwo was the clear worst place on earth in terms of dead and wounded. I'm not sure what is driving your stubborn insistence that "other battles were just as bad" but even though all of the battles you cited were hell on earth, Iwo was still the worst of them all. I encourage you to read more about it.

21 posted on 02/19/2015 6:57:41 AM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: jmacusa

My dad was in the 4th also, but didn’t go to Iwo after being shot on Tinian. I think he as in F 24, but it’s highly unlikely they knew each other. He did say not many of his company made it off Iwo unscathed. I get the quarterly , Fighting Fourth Division of WW2, the newsletter of the 4th Marine Division Association’s survivors.I read it end to end .
We were blessed to have such men as parents.


22 posted on 02/19/2015 7:05:34 AM PST by Boowhoknew
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To: Chainmail
OK, have it your way, there was nothing special about the battle for Iwo.
Never said that, don't twist my words. Our disagreement is not abut the battles but rather the men who fought them.
You said the bravery on that island was "unparalleled."
I disagreed and said their bravery was no greater than that exhibited by the combatants in other battles.
Buuuuuut, the more I think of it, maybe your right. I think the Korean vets fought with much more bravery than the Vietnam vets.
23 posted on 02/19/2015 7:53:44 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: oh8eleven

Kind of a small little guy, aren’t you?
I used to think better of you.


24 posted on 02/19/2015 8:00:10 AM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: Chainmail

Soooo, you lose the argument and turn to personal insults? I expected better.


25 posted on 02/19/2015 8:06:17 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: oh8eleven

No argument lost. Just friendship.


26 posted on 02/19/2015 8:07:05 AM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: oh8eleven

I wouldn’t say it denies the valor of the hard fought battles in Europe and the Pacific. The NVA were certainly a tough and tenacious foe. But consider that in Europe GI’s could be pulled off the line for some R&R, a warm bed, a hot meal, see a movie, even fraternize with women. On those Pacific islands there was none of that. The only way off any of those hell holes was to kill every stinking Jap on it. The Japanese didn’t surrender. They knew for them where ever they fought that would be their grave yard.


27 posted on 02/19/2015 2:06:02 PM PST by jmacusa (Liberalism defined: When mom and dad go away for the weekend and the kids are in charge.)
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To: Boowhoknew

We certainly were. My late father-in-law was 4th. Marines, 27th. Regiment. I believe their objective was one of the islands airfields. He wasn’t on the island long, I think about four days and then he got that ‘’million dollar wound’’ a leg wound and that got him the heck out of there. Prior to Iwo he saw combat on Saipan, that was where he was first wounded, grenade shrapnel in the face, nothing too serious, just a cut lip and a few scrapes and he also saw combat on Tinian. He described watching in absolute horror as civilians on Saipan, convinced by Japanese propaganda that the Marines would rape the women , kill them and eat their bodies, flung themselves off cliffs to their deaths. That deeply affected him and he rarely talked about it. He also couldn’t eat spare ribs, couldn’t stand the sight of them and I think I know why. He sometimes had to provide cover for a flame thrower team. Think about about it. The human lungs inside the rib cage are really two bladders filled with air. When a jet of super heated flame at least four or five hundred degrees hits that,the air is super heated and a human rib cage explodes. God Almighty but war is awful.


28 posted on 02/19/2015 2:31:34 PM PST by jmacusa (Liberalism defined: When mom and dad go away for the weekend and the kids are in charge.)
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To: Chainmail
The Hurtgen Forest didn't have any air fields and in truth was a total disaster. It accomplished nothing. Because of the over cast, damp and rainy conditions the Americans couldn't use their air power, artillery was all but useless against dug in, well fortified and well constructed concrete bunkers and they couldn't use their armor as well. The 9th.Inf. Div. and the 30th.Inf. Div. suffered horrendous losses and on December 14, 1944 the Allied High Command called off any further operations. Two days later 0n the 16th. of December the Germans came barreling out of the Ardennes hell bent on splitting the Allied armies in two and reaching the port of Antwerp.
29 posted on 02/19/2015 2:41:30 PM PST by jmacusa (Liberalism defined: When mom and dad go away for the weekend and the kids are in charge.)
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To: Boowhoknew

My Dad was in the 3rd Marine Division and saw action in the South Pacific including Iwo Jima. He recently passed (Jan 27 age 93), at his memorial service a contingent of Marines presented the colors, paid tribute to his service and bid farewell to a brother Marine. Truly blessed to have such a man as a parent.


30 posted on 02/19/2015 5:11:14 PM PST by CheneyClone
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To: jmacusa

Makes you wonder why our commanders back then thought that that place, that time was important enough to push unsupported and inexperienced troops into battle. As an officer, I was always trained to push until you find the hard center and then work around the edges to find soft points or gaps to get around behind them.

Bad weather or not, artillery is what you use against strongpoints - not bodies.


31 posted on 02/19/2015 6:55:49 PM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: jmacusa

my dad also seldom talked about it. Some time later, after my mother died, he would talk a little about it, and I met a man that was his foxhole partner,on saipan for a few weeks. I think they were in front of the massive banzai charge at night, and he was concerned he would be judged for how many japanese he killed. Mr Gentry sent me “the green book”, about the 4th in WW2 .


32 posted on 02/22/2015 9:08:02 AM PST by Boowhoknew
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To: Chainmail
The somewhat vague objective to the Hurtgen forest campaign was to seize a series of hydro-elecrtic plants and dams in the Ruhr Valley ostensibly to cut off power to German munitions plants. So in mid October 1944, after having captured the city of Aachen, the Army's VI Corps made a right flank turn into a fifty by fifty mile dark and gloomy forest at a time of the year, in the words of German General Walter Model, ''It doesn't get light until seven in the morning and it gets dark at three in the afternoon.'' The Germans themselves couldn't understand why in the world the American Army choose to do this but they were happy to oblige by killing thousands of American soldier. The American High Command should have been court-martialed. The Hurtgen wasn't combat-- it was murder.
33 posted on 02/22/2015 8:03:13 PM PST by jmacusa (Liberalism defined: When mom and dad go away for the weekend and the kids are in charge.)
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To: jmacusa
Could not agree with you more. It was a completely ill-conceived operation and a disgraceful bloodbath. Our GIs were pushed into a killing box that could've been bypassed, isolated and then reduced.

Inadequate leaders are the bane of our existence and so many good young men were squandered because of them.

People may say what they will about the idiosyncrasies of George Patton or Douglas MacArthur - but they would never have allowed this atrocity to happen the way that it did.

34 posted on 02/23/2015 4:48:22 AM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: Chainmail

My many of the WW2 vets it’s been my privilege to know often felt their worst enemies weren’t the Germans or the Japanese, it was their own officers. I’ve never met any veteran of the ETO who had anything good to say about British General Bernard Montgomery. One vet who survived D-Day, the Hurtgen(where he was wounded) The Bulge and all the way to the Rhine told me flat out, “I’d a shot that Limey c***er quicker than I’d have shot Hitler’’.


35 posted on 02/23/2015 9:04:47 AM PST by jmacusa (Liberalism defined: When mom and dad go away for the weekend and the kids are in charge.)
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