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Dangerous implications of the Nebraska-Oklahoma lawsuit against marijuana legalization in Colorado
The Volokh Conspiracy ^ | December 19, 2014 | Ilya Somin

Posted on 12/19/2014 10:16:21 PM PST by right-wing agnostic

click here to read article


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To: offwhite
Then I guess the Wickard court shouldn't have used the Shreveport case as precedent, huh?

No, it shouldn't. In Shreveport, the court ruled that the relevant fact was that the railroad was a registered carrier of interstate commerce and therefore subject to being regulated. Whatever incidental effect that regulation had on intrastate commerce was irrelevant.

In Wickard, they turned their own logic upside down. It became irrelevant whether Filburn was a registered carrier and the only relevant issue was that they regulated intrastate commerce.

They did exactly what Story warned against, and it has had exactly the effect he predicted.

101 posted on 01/02/2015 8:39:45 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: ConservingFreedom
"reference to such possible motives prior to establishing the claim as unsupportable are the rankest sort of argument ad hominem."

I agree. But the only thing I'm establishing is the possibility that your agenda is interfering with your argument.

102 posted on 01/02/2015 8:40:41 AM PST by offwhite
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To: offwhite; tacticalogic
Then I guess the Wickard court shouldn't have used the Shreveport case as precedent, huh?

No, they shouldn't have; the Shreveport Rate Cases ruling asserts the authority of Congress only with specific reference to shipping rates - and its only broader language is to limit the ends for which that authority is meant to be used, namely preventing state-versus-state battles (which does not include all nonuniformity among states):

"Interstate trade was not left to be destroyed or impeded by the rivalries of local government. The purpose was to make impossible the recurrence of the evils which had overwhelmed the Confederation, and to provide the necessary basis of national unity by insuring 'uniformity of regulation against conflicting and discriminating state legislation.'" (emphasis added)

103 posted on 01/02/2015 8:41:48 AM PST by ConservingFreedom (A goverrnment strong enough to impose your standards is strong enough to ban them.)
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To: offwhite

Do you work for the federal government?


104 posted on 01/02/2015 8:42:37 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: offwhite
the only thing I'm establishing is the possibility that your agenda is interfering with your argument.

It's also possible that you have an agenda that is interfering with your argument - such as, perhaps, a fervent desire to keep marijuana away from your kids and a mistaken belief that the general marijuana prohibition furthers that end.

105 posted on 01/02/2015 8:45:24 AM PST by ConservingFreedom (A goverrnment strong enough to impose your standards is strong enough to ban them.)
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To: offwhite

Now, how is it that someone who only signed up less than 2 weeks ago knows that screen name?


106 posted on 01/02/2015 8:47:36 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: tacticalogic
"Whatever incidental effect that regulation had on intrastate commerce was irrelevant."

Just the opposite. The court ruled that that the incidental effect of intrastate rates on the interstate rates that Congress was regulating was relevant, meaning Congress could also regulate intrastate rates.

"It became irrelevant whether Filburn was a registered carrier and the only relevant issue was that they regulated intrastate commerce."

At the time of this case, Congress was already constitutionally regulating the interstate commerce of wheat. In order for the interstate regulation to work, however, farmers had to agree to only produce a certain amount of wheat or pay a penalty. Filburn did neither. No big deal, but if many "Filburns" did the same, the regulation would fail.

The court ruled that excess wheat grown for personal consumption would have a substantial effect on the interstate wheat Congress was regulating; therefore, Congress could regulate intrastate wheat.

This all falls under Congress' power to regulate.

107 posted on 01/02/2015 8:59:45 AM PST by offwhite
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To: ConservingFreedom
It's also possible that you have an agenda that is interfering with your argument

Or works for a federal agency that was created by Congress using the New Deal "substantial effects" doctrine of the Commerce Clause as it's claim of Constitutional authority.

108 posted on 01/02/2015 9:03:16 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: tacticalogic
"Do you work for the federal government?"

All of the personal information I wish to disclose can be found on my profile page.

109 posted on 01/02/2015 9:04:14 AM PST by offwhite
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To: tacticalogic
"Now, how is it that someone who only signed up less than 2 weeks ago knows that screen name?"

Because he's an icon.

110 posted on 01/02/2015 9:06:07 AM PST by offwhite
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To: tacticalogic; ConservingFreedom

If you find the topic of this thread to be boring, perhaps there’s another more interesting.


111 posted on 01/02/2015 9:09:41 AM PST by offwhite
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To: offwhite
Just the opposite. The court ruled that that the incidental effect of intrastate rates on the interstate rates that Congress was regulating was relevant, meaning Congress could also regulate intrastate rates.

The decision states:

"by reason of its control over the interstate carrier in all matters having such a close and substantial relation to interstate commerce that it is necessary or appropriate to exercise the control for the effective government of that commerce."

No carrier, no control.

112 posted on 01/02/2015 9:13:47 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: offwhite

I don’t scare off that easily, retread.


113 posted on 01/02/2015 9:14:42 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: offwhite
You introduced the topic of agendas. If you can't take the heat, don't open the door to the kitchen.
114 posted on 01/02/2015 9:16:13 AM PST by ConservingFreedom (A goverrnment strong enough to impose your standards is strong enough to ban them.)
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To: tacticalogic
Does Wickard v Filburn only apply to wheat?
115 posted on 01/02/2015 9:23:01 AM PST by offwhite
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To: offwhite; tacticalogic
Does Wickard v Filburn only apply to wheat?

USSC rulings have been both broad and narrow, and Wickard v Filburn - unlike the Shreveport Rate Cases ruling - was explicitly broad:

"questions of the power of Congress are not to be decided by reference to any formula which would give controlling force to nomenclature such as 'production' and 'indirect' and foreclose consideration of the actual effects of the activity in question upon interstate commerce. [...] But even if appellee's activity be local and though it may not be regarded as commerce, it may still, whatever its nature, be reached by Congress if it exerts a substantial economic effect on interstate commerce and this irrespective of whether such effect is what might at some earlier time have been defined as 'direct' or 'indirect.'"

116 posted on 01/02/2015 9:33:38 AM PST by ConservingFreedom (A goverrnment strong enough to impose your standards is strong enough to ban them.)
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To: offwhite; Admin Moderator
Does Wickard v Filburn only apply to wheat?

No, they applied it to guns too. You know that and approve.

117 posted on 01/02/2015 9:34:26 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: tacticalogic
"I don’t scare off that easily, retread."

Of course not. Not with an admin mod's skirts to hide behind.

118 posted on 01/02/2015 11:19:56 AM PST by offwhite
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To: tacticalogic
"No, they applied it to guns too."

Going off-topic already?

119 posted on 01/02/2015 11:21:33 AM PST by offwhite
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To: offwhite
Going off-topic already?

Not a bit. Wheat, drugs, guns, carbon dioxide, hate crimes, domestic violence, health insurance, all that and more claimed to fall under the authority of Congress by virtue of a "substantial effect on interstate commerce". Just as Story predicted.

120 posted on 01/02/2015 12:17:26 PM PST by tacticalogic
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