Posted on 08/10/2014 12:46:23 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe
Very true. Not that that has stopped this administration before.
But given the jurisdictional issues, surely the Texas health department, NYC health authorities or even USAMRIID can ask for leave to take samples from an apartment prior to decontamination. It's not like they're asking to burn the building to the ground. For that matter, why isn't the CDC requesting permission to do the sampling? Isn't that what they're supposed to be doing to start with?
I am a strong proponent of subsidiarity but this sort of situation reveals its inherent problems. Virus time does not run at the same rate as bureaucracy time. Add to that the inevitable turf wars, politics and bureaucratic inertia. . ..sheesh, what a mess.
Local governments can't be bribed to let the CDC into an Ebola-contaminated apartment before the local safety employees if they are unaware that the CDC is offering the bribes, and there's always some bozo who doesn't get the word.
What we need is to have some local cops, EMT's and firefighters actually catch Ebola by entering a contaminated apartment. Then maybe word will get around to let the CDC in first. But probably we'll need several dozen Darwin Awards among emergency responders for that to happen.
Did You Know Europe Is Hiding It’s Own Ebola Crisis?
http://yournewswire.com/did-you-know-europe-is-hiding-its-own-ebola-crisis/
With all of the news headlines sounding the alarm of Ebola in Africa and the US, many are unaware that not only has Ebola reached Europe, but it has claimed the lives of more than you would think. According to an article published today in The Daily Beast: If you were surprised to hear the news that a Sudanese United Nations worker died of the deadly Ebola virus in a Berlin hospital on Tuesday, you might be even more surprised to learn just how many Ebola patients there are elsewhere in Europe.
>>...but this is the first I’ve ever heard of enlisted men
>>believing they are being thrown out to do “battle” against
>> a purely medical/biological threat for nothing more than
>>short-term politics.
I’ll have to check out the military side of my family.
They will know if this is serious.
I haven’t seen this reported on any of the big news sites, so grain of salt here:
HCW arriving at Newark from Sierra Leone now at hospital with fever:
Passenger quarantined at Newark Airport after treating Ebola patients in Africa develops fever
That may seem harsh, but I watched the video of the two NYPD officers trying to get their Darwins.
I’m just a little bit speechless here. Look at the pictures at the link. Dear Lord in Heaven...
And this? What on EARTH??
“We do not consider the patient’s apartment to be ‘contaminated’ based on the history of no release of blood or body fluids before he was removed from the apartment,” the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene said in a statement.
I think I can hear West Africans laughing at us.
Yep... maybe at the next press conference someone will ask what Dr. Spencer’s temperature was upon arrival at the hospital.....
MSF nurse, quarantined, due to the new measures implemented today in New Jersey (and New York), now has fever.
Uh-oh.
“maybe at the next press conference someone will ask what Dr. Spencer’s temperature was upon arrival at the hospital.....”
lol...
Not if they want to KEEP that cushy media job, they won’t.
Please let me know what they say. I’m hearing it from Ft. Campbell and Ft. Carson.
This is among the issues which pretty much guarantee if the disease gets a solid foothold here, it may be worse than in Africa. There, decisions are made and acted upon. Here, there are delays in figuring out who is supposed to even make the decision.
I think the intricacies of our society will create points of failure unimagined in other cultures.
Overall, certainly, and in this particular case, definitely.
From the aspect of first responders and health care workers, knowing if there had been viral shedding taking place in the man's apartment would indicate the likelihood of a threat in the wild.
If no virus was detected in the apartment, then that might indicate a low probability of fomite threat (not zero, but low), but that threat would increase if detectable amounts of virus were found.
What is the lower detection limit for the virus using current detection methods for fomites? (can those methods detect ID50 viral loads in a timely fashion?) Are there accepted techniques for evaluating contamination in the wild? What methodology is used if there are?
FYI (pinging the lists) !!!!
NJ official: Female health care worker who'd been in Africa isolated with fever
Ebola survivor Nina Pham: I believe in the power of prayer
HazMat team empties Ebola doctor's apartment without gloves, face masks, any protective gear
WHO expects around 200,000 Ebola vaccine doses by mid-2015
Passenger Isolated After Feeling Ill On LAX Flyaway Bus
Woman quarantined in New Jersey develops fever
New (Female Health Care Worker Back from Hot Zone now sick)--locked duplicate thread
Eyewitness to Hell: Life in Ebola-Ravaged Liberia (photo essay)
League City clinic quarantined due to patient's Ebola-like symptoms
Obama Meets Ebola Nurse (photo op)
Breaking: Obama to meet Nurse Nina Pham in Oval Office
NYPD Stunner: Cops Exit Ebola Victim Apartment, Dump Gloves, Masks In Sidewalk Trash Can [VIDEO]
The Left-Wing Hipster Democrat Couple That Exposed NYC to #Ebola
Naive Immigration Policy is a Existential Threat
Nurse quarantined at Newark airport after treating Ebola patients
Ebola.Com domain sold for big payout (Cash and marijuana-related stocks)
PHUKET: Medical officials investigate death of possible Ebola victim (Thailand)
MSF Protocols for Staff Returning from Ebola-Affected Countries
Great Questions!
Ebola death toll tops 4,900 as virus spreads: WHO (Official Cases Over 10,000)
Pixie at PFIF has made some very interesting comments.
I have been listening to some very interesting discussions on CNN about the idea of quarantining HCWs who have been working in the hot zone upon their re-entry. The discussions were all reasoned, with the physicians reiterating that Dr. Spencer followed MSF guidelines. They also emphasized that MSF and its doctors and nurses have a great deal of experience with Ebola - decades of experience.
But there are two points that are being missed.
MSF’s experience — indeed everyone’s experience — has been with Ebola outbreaks that take place in remote jungle villages.
Prior to just a handful of weeks ago, MSF had zero experience with fighting Ebola in an urban, densely populated, mobile ecosystem. Zero.
Also, prior to just a handful of weeks ago, MSF had zero experience with fighting Ebola in an environment in which it was spreading in an out of control manner.
MSF has never before had to deal with the “community spread” of Ebola.
This situation is, remember, “unprecedented,” and it is “unprecedented” even for MSF.
While in the past MSF staff were protected from infection by not only their hazmat suits but by the natural quarantine of the virus that the jungle provided and by movement restrictions of the population that were a fact of life, Ebola or no Ebola, in the remote outbreak areas. So not only did MSF have control of the ETU environment and the personal PPE environment created by a HCWs PPE, MSF was able to control the more general environment as well. This all worked to protect its staff from infection.
Now, MSF staff is attempting to maintain control of ETUs (successfully, always, which is why they will not allow them to go over capacity), and they are attempting to maintain control of their HCWs personal safety while at work via the very best PPE (and successfully so as well, it seems).
What MSF cannot control that is so different from all other outbreaks that have come before is the wider environment in which its workers must operate. In the past, that perimeter could be secured. Not so today. Today MSF workers face a virus which is pervasive throughout a community.
As KimT said, Dr. Spencer could have picked up his infection from a co-worker who was not yet obviously symptomatic or from a cab ride. He really could have become infected almost anywhere. He likely was not infected via a breach in his PPE or the ETU infection control protocol.
The reality is that this situation is “unprecedented” and only two of the three rules that ensured that MSF workers would not become infected during Ebola outbreaks are operative. The third leg of the stool of MSF worker safety really has to be examined.
Community spread of Ebola is a newfangled thing, it’s a brand new animal. Relying on the same old, same old, practices and procedures in an “unprecedented” situation is almost a guarantee of failure. MSF will need to adapt its strategies meant to protect its workers from infection to the new situation. This may mean a dedicated campus and no freedom of movement for MSF workers in the hot zone.
It’s either that, either MSF and other aid agencies initiate new measures to protect their workers from community spread of Ebola in the outbreak areas, or others like Governor Cuomo and Governor Christie will quarantine them.
Perhaps MSF felt that their traditional practices really would be enough to protect their workers. Perhaps there is some reluctance, too, to enact restrictive policies on their volunteers, whether in the outbreak area or abroad, and to draw any attention to the wider risk its workers may face in the affected countries.
The only thing we know for certain is that HCWs in the outbreak areas face an “unprecedented” situation. Everything possible should be done to protect them in this new operational environment.
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