Posted on 05/02/2014 5:59:22 PM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
So the pro-Russians are political opponents when dying in a fire? How about when the pro-Russians are shooting to death unarmed Ukrainians? Would that be a self defense force? Your playing an Orwellian word game.
You should direct your anger at where it belongs. Russia.
There was no violence in E. and S. Ukraine until Putin sent his armed goons in there.
All the blood of yesterday tragedy is on Putin’s hands.
“So the pro-Russians are political opponents when dying in a fire? How about when the pro-Russians are shooting to death unarmed Ukrainians? Would that be a self defense force? Your playing an Orwellian word game.”
It sounds like you are arguing with the voices in your head instead of anything I typed. I didn’t say self defense force, you did. If you want you can continue the discussion from here for many messages, keep typing in both sides.
I don’t know how you think one side was unarmed, the anti-separatist are clearly seen on video repeatedly shooting into the building where dozens of people were dying in the fire.
Here is the reporting from CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/03/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/
Forty-six people died following the blaze that started at a trade union building amid clashes, a spokesperson for the local prosecutor’s office told CNN, in what was by far the worst incident in Ukraine since a February uprising that ended with a pro-Moscow President fleeing the country.
“We have identified very few bodies, but they were all local residents,” the spokesperson said Saturday.
So according to the local prosecutor in the best position to know, Ukraine has identified very few bodies, all the ones they have are local residents...
But you say they’re all from Transnistria and Russia.
I want you to look at how burned these bodies are and you tell me how your source made me this determination.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f0f_1399119582
I don’t know how you think one side was unarmed, the anti-separatist are clearly seen on video repeatedly shooting into the building where dozens of people were dying in the fire.
Now you are making stuff up. There is no evidence of that. There were western reporters at the Trade Union building and nobody has reported that. It was dark at the time and it really wasn’t clear what was happening. However, there is plenty of CLEAR video and pics from earlier in the day of Pro-Russians shooting at unarmed Ukrainians.
I can see you are not interested in facts contrary to your position.
“Now you are making stuff up. There is no evidence of that.”
Please watch this video and tell me how many shots you count this man firing into the building.
Do the police stop him?
Are the other anti-separatists upset by what he is doing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYUnjSJFKmw#t=17
Would you like more videos?
Yes, I would like them all the videos. Starting with the street battle, please.
So you accuse me of making stuff up, I prove you wrong, and you have nothing to say.
Not, wow I was wrong, I see you have proof of what you were saying!
Or, gee, I’m really sorry for accusing you of making stuff up, that won’t happen again.
Or maybe, my goodness, I guess I shouldn’t have put so much faith in the reports I was reading.
Where did you find that video? You said there are more and I’d like to see more. I am interested in gathering the facts that’s all.
I am genuinely interested. None of the western reporters on the scene reported that.
It’s ok.
I learned to stop expecting people to act with integrity on this forum anymore.
Video from earlier street battles
Police trying to block separatists: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_IxaQsKhl9w
Separatists firing
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D1g1de—iew
Are you going to apologize for not putting this event at the Trade Union in context?
We’ve had months and months of violence in E. and S. Ukraine. It’s the same movie over and mover. A Russian rent a mob backed by armed Green Men beating down, kidnapping and murdering.
If yesterday was different, I’d genuinely like to know that.
Those pics of the police protecting the Green Men shooters are unbelievable. What are Ukrainians saying about that today?
I don’t understand why you are sending me that video.
I did not pretend that only one side was armed.
That was lodi90 who did.
So you accuse me of making stuff up, I prove you wrong....
and you think I’m the one who needs to apologize?
I guess that’s the logical end to the conversation.
If only this had been news. There’s zero trust in them.
During December-February, the police had been working with titushki, now, some are working for the Russians.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vO5awG_1NBk
This one was from couple of months ago in Kharkiv. Russian attacking somebody in the pro-Ukrainian crowd, tries to cover his face, is taken by the police. Knife is found on the scene but the cop just gives the knife away and lets the guy go, then playing an idiot about what he’s done.
My bad, I’ll send it to anyone who’d listen ))
I see you would rather shut down debate than put the event at the Trade Union in context. There have been months and months of Russian state sponsored terrorism in Ukraine. Finally the Ukrainians were able to defend themselves. This time it wasn’t just Ukrainians dying. I guess that is your real problem here.
Your replies are typical of the current Russian mentality. Russians are free to abuse and murder their neighbors. The neighbors are never allowed to defend themselves. Correct?
If you are really upset about the deaths at the Trade Union then the only answer is that Putin must be stopped. Russian nationals must be removed from Ukraine immediately. If you think it the situation bad now in Ukraine just wait until foreign nationals are fighting on Ukraine’s side. And that will happen. I guarantee it. Putin must be stopped. Now.
FRiend. Thanks for the info.
I am reading reports of public displays of St. George’s ribbons appearing in the Baltics. And also an extreme negative reaction from many people to public displays of such Pro-Russian nationalist symbolism.
Putin is pushing the region and maybe the world to catastrophe. The pro-Russian armchair analysts here just have no idea how close we are too a large amount of people being killed because of Putin’s adventures in Ukraine. He must be stopped.
Informative post, FRiend. I am sure the Russians in Odessa were exchange students. Didn’t you know camo, bullet proof vest and masks are the standard Russian student uniforms?
Our FRiend Ivan from Ukraine has made a good point in another thread. Russians and their supporters are no longer interested in debate. It’s all name calling and (real) bomb throwing. How typically Soviet of them.
The Russians are sadly mistaken if they think they can abuse Ukraine and no one fight back. There are many recent graves in that part of the world of patriots murdered by Russians. Ukraine is not alone. If they fight others will join them. Russia isn’t the only country that can play irregular warfare.
All of the propaganda about protecting the Russian language is highly offensive to those folks in Eastern Europe who had THEIR languages banned by Russian rulers MANY times over history. Russian chauvism of late is offending pretty much everybody over there. Superman Putin has a fight, if he wants it.
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