Posted on 01/27/2014 9:05:31 PM PST by Kevmo
Kevmo, where you been buddy? I accept that LENR is something, what that something is we don’t know yet but I would have zero problems funding LENR research with our tax dollars. We know there’s anomalous heat, I don’t buy Rossi’s claims
***Why? His claims of anomalous heat came well after the 14,700 replications of anomalous heat. He’s working in Ni/H, which was even harder to get results than PD/D.
but there is real research going on that proves this isn’t some artifact
***Rossi said earlier on that the proof would be in the pudding. He did the research himself, along with Focardi, and then he wanted to cash in. He isn’t a scientist, he’s an engineer with a box to sell for the purpose of making money.
or simply using the chemical energy of hydrogen as has been reported.
***And the vast majority of papers which report excess heat show that it is far in excess of what hydrogen chemically can produce. That is the very nature of the definition of Excess Heat.
Where I do have a problem is where people come on this thread, throw their authority around and expect us to agree and then get p*ssy if we don’t
***WW has more education in this area than I do. And he’s an expert on chemistry, measurement, and calorimetry. So, he’s got some authority to throw around. So many skeptopaths throw their authority around and when I dig deeper, I find out that they’re Product Engineers or Lab Assistants or somesuch thing. Their authority comes from the back end of a bull.
BLP, what the hell happened???
***My theory is that Randell Mills got lazy. He’s spent the last 20 years selling vaporware. He’s a brilliant theorist with a fascinating theory that has a major gaping hole in it and it will be provably wrong when his final box gets tested for nuclear ash. So he has to surround every demo, every advance with bowlsheet and NDA’s.
I logged on to their website, not a peep but the press release about the 28th test. Searches on the web led to nothing about the test and there’s still nothing. Way to go BLP. This is as bad as McLaren saying their PI hypercar would be the fastest around the ring. They ran the test and then backed off and said they wouldn’t release the numbers because the ring is dangerous but Porsche had no problem beating 7:00 minutes in their new 918. McLaren must have the same PR hacks as BLP.
***I agree with your assessment of PR hacks. I haven’t been following BLP for a long time, and my suspicion is that Mills had to come up with SOMETHING to demo to try to steal the wind from Rossi’s sails. Mills might have something, but it’s far, far behind Rossi in terms of going into production. It’s like the Wright Brothers and Glenn Curtiss. When Curtiss was fantasizing about flying, the Wrights were perfecting their airplane. Curtiss was so vocally loud and antagonistic (and teamed up with Langley, who was thoroughly repudiated by the Wrights) that even though he had ZERO beyond what the Wrights developed, he was able to get what he wanted out of the situation. The next phase is going to be patent wars with $trillions at stake, and Randell Mills will be in better position than most even if he has NOTHING.
So, how do we throw down to prove to one another which statement is true? Where is my hot-fusion car? I keep seeing that same horse manure comment on LENR threads, so why wouldn’t it be viable to apply to controlled-hot-fusion (CHF)? The CHF boys had 50 years, $500B, and 50 year corner-turn. The LENR boys have had 24 years, $50M, and at this time it’s a 3 year corner-turn.
They’ve made far more progress on shoestring budgets than the CHF boys had.
They’re 14 orders of magnitude more cost effective
———————www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg85822.html——————
I admit a bias against CHF, but it is a bias borne of investigation of the facts; actually, it’s not a bias — it’s a conclusion. Your bias is borne of jumping on a bandwagon.
“Your bias is borne of jumping on a bandwagon.”
No. My bias is based on 40 years of nuclear experience.
My bias is based on the previous scams by Rossi.
Then, based on your bias of 40 years of nuke experience, feel free to point out which Controlled-Hot-Fusion theories and experiments were not failures. And if they are not failures, why don’t we have nukular cars by now.
My bias is based on the previous scams by Rossi.
***If that’s true, it is only to the tune of a few $Million. The CHF scam is to the tune of hundreds of $billions. Therefore, based on your singularly impressive worry about scams, I look forward to a correspondingly high level of invective from you towards the CHF scam.
But... NO... we won’t be seeing that, will we? Because your “concern” is the “concern” of a concern troll. Concern troll is concerned. Duly noted.
Funny how we don’t see massive posting about muon catalyzed cold fusion, the only cold fusion that’s been scientifically verified by theory and experiment.
That’s because muon catalyzed cold fusion has no chance of scaling to industrial use.
But let’s suppose for a moment the poster was being honest. Then he would be able to answer the simple hypothetical: If the 14000 replications of the FP Anomalous Heat Effect are real, then would the chances it could scale up to industrial use be more than Muon Catalyzed Fusion or less?
I'm in the process of ramping up a major design effort on the oceanographic systems, and have even less time (as little as that was) to waste.
That sounds interesting, what is it and what is it for if you could provide a basic outline? Climate research? Now, this design effort, are you making it incredibly complex using obscure equipment and ensuring you're using up your entire budget or are you using the simplest tools for the job because it makes the eventual analysis of the data, easier?
LOL. Guess what...I've used 'scopes, too. I even owned one 'til technology outstripped it. As usual, your assumption is that all the guys who witnessed that demonstration were not familiar with 'scopes. I would bet that any of the physicists there(there were several) knew how to use them.
Then you know exactly what I'm talking about. Hell, you could leave a scope free running on a bench and people that don't know would think something important is going on but again, Rossi, if he actually had a scope, is again leaping over the easy method and taking the hard one. If you wanted to check to see if the charging system on your car was working, would you lug a scope to your garage or grab a cheap DMM? I'm leaving out the cool scope/DMM combos in this example.
And maybe he would give an answer that makes perfect sense. Another possibility is that he was targeting his equipment for the US market, and designed it to run on 110 and didn't want to buy a high-power stepdown transformer. Again you are ASSUMING that your "criminal fraud" meme is the only possible one.
Rossi, by any rational review of his talks, interviews and demonstrations is a master at obfuscation. Transformers are not that expensive. I buy toroid ones for vacuum tube amps and they are cheap. That is not a valid reason. For example, look at the back of any receiver in your house, does it have a voltage selector? Even the cheap ones do. This isn't rocket science. While my assertions are based on assumptions, the assumptions are based on facts in evidence.
LOL. Just because I see more possibile explanations makes me his "cheering squad".
Now, don't hurt yourself patting your own back. "More possible explanations", sounds almost reasonable but any look at your hand-waiving of anything Rossi does means you're not only on the squad, hell, you're head cheerleader dating the football captain.
You: No. It's pretty obvious you will go to any lengths to support Rossi.
Another false assumption.
Based on facts in evidence.
LOL. I've known and worked with a lot of people smarter than I am. I'm a farm boy, raised with cow-shit between my toes, so I "am" (or was) one of the "unwashed masses".
Clue..... I know very well that I am not, let us say, a "top tier" intellect. My sister in law (the geophysicist) "is" one of those (and nuttier than a fruitcake). I fit at the level of "very bright but not genius". What I do have is LOTS (and lots) of experience, and a "knack" for looking at two pieces of technology and seeing ways they can fit together that other people haven't.
Humility? Really, above average students don't have your career or degree. You probably tested above the genius level in grade school, I have no problem acknowledging that fact either, no skin off my nose. But, that leads to an enormous blind spot, you're not the only smart guy on the planet. Hell, Rossi is smart. Your arguments on all these threads have this unwritten line at the end of each one, "because I know what I'm talking about and you don't, so there."
It appears that the injury also turned you into a monomaniac. Interesting how being exposed to the word "Rossi" turns you into a foaming-at-the-mouth nutter. Or perhaps one of the Three Stooges (".....slowly I turned, step-by-step, inch-by-inch.....")
Well then, we are both allergic to the same thing because you can't help supporting Rossi no matter what he does or says and your responses are equally 'frothy'. Luckily, it appears we might be closer to finding out what Rossi actually has, then again, he promised millions of e-cats in 2012-2013 made in robotic factories and that was some serious vaporware.
***Before I argue conspiracy theories, I need to know exactly which one yours is. For instance, have thousands of scientists conspired to produce a false replication of the P-F Anomalous Heat Effect more than 14,700 times? Have the 7 independent scientists who black-body-tested Rossi’s device been involved in a conspiracy to defraud? And the multiple others involved in Rossi’s demos? Do you contend that I signed up 15 years ago in order to shill for Rossi, as some have contended on these threads? Is Scientific Instruments, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Navy SPAWAR, NASA, SRI, and ELFORSK all involved in furtherance of this conspiracy? Those are just the beginning of the ever-widening conspiracy theory web, so we might as well start there.
Whoa there fella, you might want to take a breath and avoid the 24 pack of Red Bulls.
” I look forward to a correspondingly high level of invective from you towards the CHF scam.”
I haven’t seen any CHF pimps on here ...
“Then, based on your bias of 40 years of nuke experience, feel free to point out which Controlled-Hot-Fusion theories and experiments were not failures.”
The list of theories is too long. I will leave it up to you to find one theory that is NOT correct.
“Hell, Rossi is smart.”
He has conned millions from various governents. Unfortunately, he has paid for some of it with prison time.
“Luckily, it appears we might be closer to finding out what Rossi actually has, “
Tomorrow never comes in scam-scam land.
I see you on here. If you’re so “concerned” about fraud, you’d be 14 orders of magnitude more “concerned” about CHF fraud. Your silence pimps CHF.
I will leave it up to you to find one theory that is NOT correct.
***All of them. Can’t control CHF with lasers, nor magnetic containment fields nor any of the other approaches so far. At best we’ve gotten a second or two. Contrast that with several months for Hagelstein’s NANOR experiment. CHF is a fraud by the measure being applied to LENR.
Rossi could learn a thing or two about running cons from the Controlled-Hot-Fusion (CHF) boys. His corner-turn is a couple of years; theirs has always been 50 years. He’s supposedly “conned” guvmints of a few million per your assertion; they’ve conned our guvmint of hundreds of $Billions. He has to turn over IP, actually have something to sell; they’ve produced zero IP to sell. Yup, those CHF frauds are far better con artists than Rossi ever could be.
Tomorrow never comes in scam-scam land.
***You’re right. The real scam artists have been pushing a 50 year corner-turn. What an incredible scam.
Answer the questions if you want to support that your conspiracy only requires a few people.
Rossi, if he actually had a scope, is again leaping over the easy method and taking the hard one.
***There is no way for you to know that unless you have inside information. Rossi claims to have proprietary waveform technology in his ECat.
Rossi, by any rational review of his talks, interviews and demonstrations is a master at obfuscation. Transformers are not that expensive. I buy toroid ones for vacuum tube amps and they are cheap. That is not a valid reason. For example, look at the back of any receiver in your house, does it have a voltage selector? Even the cheap ones do. This isn’t rocket science.
***But your assumptions of what he is measuring are pseudoscience.
While my assertions are based on assumptions, the assumptions are based on facts in evidence.
***Not if you’ve been following Rossi. Even then it would still be assumptions until you saw the setup yourself and looked at what it actually was measuring.
Your arguments on all these threads have this unwritten line at the end of each one, “because I know what I’m talking about and you don’t, so there.”
***Classic fallacy: arguing from silence.
he promised millions of e-cats in 2012-2013 made in robotic factories and that was some serious vaporware.
***Yup. He’s a classic inventor, wildly optimistic about how difficult the other stuff like product engineering is to do, as if what he did was the only difficult thing. (Well, if he solved the problem of Cold Fusion, that part would be true enough).
Here's the only one you're remotely right about.
"That sounds interesting, what is it and what is it for if you could provide a basic outline? Climate research? Now, this design effort, are you making it incredibly complex using obscure equipment and ensuring you're using up your entire budget or are you using the simplest tools for the job because it makes the eventual analysis of the data, easier?"
The first system is to monitor nutrients (NO3,PO4) in "estuarial waters". We are building the units around a new approach to microfluidics developed by us that uses some components developed in-house, and some off-the-shelf. More off-the-shelf than not...but the basic fluidics approach is our development (and the same as that used in the biowarfare device.....so it is "well tested"). But there are other analyses that can benefit from our way of doing things. Some of it is climate related, and some is about better understanding how the water world works chemically.
The rest of your BS is simply wrong assumptions. Leave the psychology to the experts.
My position on Rossi is what it is because I have read all the reports, at least attempted to watch all the video interviews, and to get as close to primary sources as I can manage. That is, verifiable evidence.
I don't need someone else to "interpret" the data, because I have sufficient understanding of the measurement methods to draw my own conclusions. Case in point....the skeptopath community raised hell over the use of a temperature/humidity probe to measure "steam quality", and claimed it couldn't be so used. Unfortunately for their position, "I" know exactly how such a sensor combination CAN be used to measure "steam quality". So their arguments go "poof".
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