The Invasion of Sicily 1943: Victory as a Strategic Mistake?

Townhall.com ^ | July 10, 2013 | Austin Bay

[donmeaker]

MacArthur of course did coordinate, as would be necessary to borrow little things like aircraft carriers, amphibious landing craft (we were always short of them) fuel and ammunition.

It made sense to push the Japanese in the south (SW Pac) as well as the Central Pacific, as they couldn’t (after midway)_ maneuver their forces as well as we could.

Professional military types back then thought in terms of the Lanchester Equations.

Enemy loss rate is proportional to the quality of your force, and the square of your numbers. Your loss rate is proportional to the enemy quality and the square of the enemy numbers.

That helps understand why we tried to use superior mobility in the pacific and in Europe to create strong concentrations against enemy locations with relative weakness.

That led to Spruance and Halsey each planning alternate attacks, with the carrier fleet changing numbers as it moved to support whichever attack was planned.

[Colonel_Flagg]

Guadalcanal & Tarawa were Navy/Marine Corps operations, not under the command of MacArthur. I’m sure he noticed those mistakes, but they weren’t his.

While the Guadalcanal campaign saw the vast majority of the heavy lifting done by the Marines, Army troops took part in the battles for Henderson Field, Point Cruz, Koli Point and other locations. Calling the operation completely a Navy/Marine operation isn't entirely accurate. That isn't to understate the valor and sacrifice of the Marines, of course.

[Fiji Hill]

For a well-argued presentation of the case against invading Iwo Jima, read Worth the Cost? Justificaton of the Iwo Jima Invasion on the Historynet site. Included are responses by those taking issue with the author.

[Fiji Hill]

By the way, a lot of Americans probably don't know that the Meat Ball flies over Iwo Jima--now called Iwo Tō, its original name, but which means the same thing--Sulfur Island.

[Tallguy]

“While the Guadalcanal campaign saw the vast majority of the heavy lifting done by the Marines, Army troops took part in the battles for Henderson Field, Point Cruz, Koli Point and other locations. Calling the operation completely a Navy/Marine operation isn’t entirely accurate.”

Thanks for pointing that out.

I would simply add that while the Guadalcanal/Solomons campaign was going on, there was a separate CINC for the SW Pacific Theater — Admiral William F. Halsey.

Nimitz had the Central Pacific; MacArthur the South Pacific. Theoretically they were co-equal, but I’m sure that Halsey reported to Nimitz and also had to reconcile his actions with MacArthur’s forces fighting on New Guinea.

[donmeaker]

Okinawa is also now part of Japan.

[donmeaker]

Keep in mind that the Marines were a very small part of the Navy in WWII.

Of 248 amphibious landings, 48 were conducted by Marines, 200 by Army. Of the 48 conducted by Marines, 48 had combat photographers along. Of the 200 conducted by the army, 2 had combat photographers along.

The photographic record is misleading at least.

The Marines lost more men in Vietnam than in WWII.

The outstanding contribution of the Marines in WWII was their amphibious landing doctrine.

[Snowyman]

You missed this one..

http://music.cbc.ca/#/blogs/2012/6/The-D-Day-Dodgers-fight-back-in-song

D-Day Dodgers - A Canadian version:

Some versions have more colourful language.

(sung to the tune of Lili Marlene)

We’re the D-Day Dodgers out in Italy -
Always on the vino, always on the spree.
Eighth Army scroungers and their tanks
We live in Rome - among the Yanks.
We are the D-Day Dodgers, over here in Italy.

We landed at Pachino, a holiday with pay
Jerry brought a band out, to cheer us on our way
Showed us the sights, and gave us tea
We all sang songs, the beer was free
We kissed all the girls in Napoli.
For we are the D-Day Dodgers, over here in Italy.

The Moro and Ortona were taken in our stride
We didn’t have to fight there. We just went for the ride.
Anzio and Sangro were all forlorn.
We did not do a thing from dusk to dawn.
For we are the D-Day Dodgers, over here in Italy.

On our way to Florence we had a lovely time.
We ran a bus to Rimini right through the Gothic Line.
On to Bologna we did go.
Then we went bathing in the Po.
For we are the D-Day Dodgers, over here in Italy.

Once we had a blue light that we were going home
Back to dear old Canada, never more to roam.
Then somebody said in France you’ll fight.
We said never mind, we’ll just sit tight,
The windy D-Day Dodgers, out in Sunny Italy.

Now Lady Astor, get a load of this.
Don’t stand up on a platform and talk a load of piss.
You’re the nation’s sweetheart, the nation’s pride
But we think your bloody big mouth is far too wide.
For we are the D-Day Dodgers, out in Sunny Italy.

When you look ‘round the mountains, through the mud and rain
You’ll find the scattered crosses, some which bear no name.
Heartbreak, and toil and suffering gone
The boys beneath them slumber on
They were the D-Day Dodgers, who’ll stay in Italy.

So listen all you people, over land and foam
Even though we’ve parted, our hearts are close to home.
When we return we hope you’ll say
“You did your little bit, though far away
All of the D-Day Dodgers, way out there in Italy.”

[Colonel_Flagg]

Thanks for your thoughts. The idea of split command, while not completely optimal, did tone down the inter-service rivalries of the day.

And it also worked, so it’s really hard to knock.

[Colonel_Flagg]

Of 248 amphibious landings, 48 were conducted by Marines, 200 by Army. Of the 48 conducted by Marines, 48 had combat photographers along. Of the 200 conducted by the army, 2 had combat photographers along.

I've studied World War II for 35 years and this fact had escaped me. Thanks for clueing me in!

[Fiji Hill]

You missed this one...D-Day Dodgers

That's a tune I was unfamiliar with. The singers give that commie Lady Astor a well-deserved skewering.

[Fiji Hill]

Of the 48 conducted by Marines, 48 had combat photographers along. Of the 200 conducted by the army, 2 had combat photographers along.

Fury in the Pacific (1945) is a short documentary on the invasion of Pelelu and Anguar by the Marines and Army. The US casualties included nine of the photographers.

[jmacusa]

I agree.