Posted on 06/05/2013 7:52:32 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Like spokes on a wheel Sherman rolled his men towards Atlanta, destroying all infrastructure that could be used for war. Sherman came from Cartersville where he made the last communication with the north in which he succinctly stated that the March had begun. Other commanders came from Rome, Cedartown, Dalton, and Decatur. When the armies met in Atlanta the March to the Sea was about 20% complete, although to this day most people say the March began in Atlanta.
On the evening of November 14, 1864, Sherman regrouped his army into a left wing and a right wing and left Atlanta. Sherman’s Merchant of Terror, Judson Kilpatrick was given the choir of destroying any remaining buildings that might be use to further the war effort. Kilpatrick’s Burning of Atlanta, however, was significantly less than Hood’s Burning of Atlanta.
http://www.aboutnorthgeorgia.com/ang/Atlanta_Under_Sherman
Mama’s gotcha got no one. No points for the pointless.
The way I understand it if the Governor doesn’t ask for Federal assistance then the President cannot do anything. For instance disaster relief. FEMA cannot just go in to a state without that state’s governors authority.
” I thought you were just being punny.”
It was punny (haha), but it was a mistake. *sigh* Sadly, my funnybone isn’t working today.
You are correct that no State can intervene in another without being asked to do so. A4S4 says clearly that application must be made by either the legislature or executive.
Unfortunately, also, is that today everyone assumes the federal government has all power unless challenged otherwise with the federal government getting the benefit of the doubt. The Constitution was not written that way at all.
Let's cut to the chase, you guys think like thugs, like Nazi's. You can justify any Federal action, any time. I don't believe any of the members of the Lincoln Coven are Conservative. All of you, except for rockrr, are retreads who were zotted on other threads when your true colors came out.
You deserve Obama. You deserve an oppressive Federal govt.
I don't and I deserve better countrymen than the likes of you people. So why don't all of you Federal Boot lickers go < expletive deleted > your life sized Lincoln blow up dolls..
There I feel better.
That may be true for a disaster, after the 1956 and 2006 amendments to legislation, but was not so in 1807 version of the legislature.
Yet yours is like opening your wallet for him and then thanking him for the robbery.
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Insurrection, rebellion, revolution, all synonyms. All were illegal and Congress had the authority to suppress any one of them.
Article 4 section 4
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
The words insurrection and rebellion appear nowhere in Art4Sec4, just invasion and 'domestic violence'. But which of those terms would be closer to fitting the common definition of rebellion and insurrection? Certainly not invasion, to which the federal government is supposed to render assistance, but domestic violence... the part of the clause that REQUIRES State authority.
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Article 1 - Powers of Congress
Section 8, Clause 15
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings
Clause 17 limits all the exclusive powers of the federal government inside the country to one place - the federal enclave.
Using the supposition that Congress had the authority to determine what did or did not constitute rebellion or insurrection in the States would make the entire purpose of the enumeration of powers...pointless!
The indispensable necessity of complete authority at the seat of government, carries its own evidence with it. It is a power exercised by every legislature of the Union, I might say of the world, by virtue of its general supremacy.
James Madison Federalist #43
Two powers cannot be absolute at the same place at the same time, and the parties to the compact, or the States, are the absoulte authority within their repective States.
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And here we're back to the eternal question of the constitutionality of the Air Force. You ever going to answer that one?
Well, since you've been kind in both your language and your demeanor -
IMHO, the air force can only be Constitutional as long as it remains part of the Navy.
Feel better? :-)
Please provide a link to historical documentation to substantiate your assertion that the ‘Executive’ as written in Article 4 Section 4 of the US Constitution means the Executive of the federal government and not an Executive of the several States.
I'm sincerely sorry to hear that. Hopefully it'll get some rest on the weekend.
The Constitution was not written that way at all.
It certainly wasn't, but so many Americans have been educated into ignorance I fear the Founders might have well saved themselves the trouble by writing 'We hereby create the United States' and gone home!
When is comes to an appreciation of the south, you can’t do better than Gen. Sherman. Below from his correspondence with Hood, after Hood had burned Atlanta.
“In the name of common-sense, I ask you not to appeal to a just God in such a sacrilegious manner. You who, in the midst of peace and prosperity, have plunged a nation into war—dark and cruel war—who dared and badgered us to battle, insulted our flag, seized our arsenals and forts that were left in the honorable custody of peaceful ordnance-sergeants, seized and made “prisoners of war” the very garrisons sent to protect your people against negroes and Indians, long before any overt act was committed by the (to you) hated Lincoln Government; tried to force Kentucky and Missouri into rebellion, spite of themselves; falsified the vote of Louisiana; turned loose your privateers to plunder unarmed ships; expelled Union families by the thousands, burned their houses, and declared, by an act of your Congress, the confiscation of all debts due Northern men for goods had and received! Talk thus to the marines, but not to me, who have seen these things, and who will this day make as much sacrifice for the peace and honor of the South as the best-born Southerner among you! If we must be enemies, let us be men, and fight it out as we propose to do, and not deal in arch hypocritical appeals to God and humanity. God will judge us in due time, and he will pronounce whether it be more humane to fight with a town full of women and the families of a brave people at our back or to remove them in time to places of safety among their own friends and people. I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
W. T. SHERMAN, Major-General commanding.”
I refer my learned friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.
You are wrong again.
The Air Force is an Army.
“The Congress shall have Power To ...raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years....”
The pretended confederate states were in rebellion against the US government, and at war with the Several states that made up that government.
They needed to win that war to become a country. They failed, thank goodness.
yet somehow, domestic violence is distinct from insurrection, and the requirement for state official’s permission to assist against domestic violence has no counterpart in a requirement for permission against an insurrection. Why? Because it would have put a big fat target on the officials who had authority to request such assistance.
Any insurrection could have murdered such an official (such as Sam Houston, governor of Texas who was opposed to the insurrection). Since there was no such need to get permission, the insurrection let Sam Houston live, although they illegally resorted to force to prevent him from exercising his office.
Sam Houston was uniquely experienced in the authority of Governor, having been governor of both Tennessee and Texas, as well as head of state of the Texas Republic.
Please provide a link to historical documentation to substantiate your assertion that the ‘Executive’ as written in Article 4 Section 4 of the US Constitution means the Executive of the federal government and not an Executive of the several States.
The Jeffersonianism the Neo-Cons are so fond of is not conservatism. American conservatism, from the very beginning, was always exemplified by the Federalist/Whig/Republican tradition: George Washington (whom even Pat Buchanan admitted favored the North over the slave-holding South but whom Neo-Cons always arrogantly and falsely claim for themselves), Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, John Marshall, John Jay, Fisher Ames, the Pinckneys, Henry Clay, Daniel Webster, and their successors. Even John C. Calhoun began his political career as a nationalist Whig before becoming (for all practical purposes) the founder of the modern Democrat party.
The Constitution vests all aspects of sovereignty in the federal government--not the states.
The Slavocrats prior to the Civil War conspired to force slavery into every state and territory of the Union, and during the War had a state socialist economy much less free than that of the Union.
"Palaeoconservatives" are civilizationist idolators who imply (if not outright avow) that all gods and all religions are the creations of the human mind, that all are equally valid, and that each people has the "duty" to be loyal to whatever tradition they happen to have inherited--rather than in an objective One True G-d and a One True Objective Truth.
A great many Neo-Con[federate]s are skull-measuring evolutionists who deny that all human beings everywhere are descended from one single human couple (Adam and Eve).
Both the contemporary federal government and the contemporary political culture of the American Black community are sheer, unadulterated monstrosities; but to read this back into the Civil War is to engage in lying. It's absolutely maddening to find the same people who insisted on importing thousands and thousands of Africans into the country as slaves now evincing a poisonous hostility to the very people their "sainted ancestors" both imported and insisted on holding onto even if it meant the destruction of their country.
G-d bless the Federalists, the Anti-Masons, the Whigs, and the Republican party!
PS: And though I don't enjoy doing so, I feel obligated in the name of honesty to admit that I accept the eternal validity of the Torah, including its position on, and regulations of, slavery.
” so many Americans have been educated into ignorance I fear the Founders might have well saved themselves the trouble by writing ‘We hereby create the United States’ and gone home!”
Wow. That’s the first I have heard that idea. Excellent thought. It should be spread around all over the place, and I don’t say that lightly. And you are right.
Hey, trav, something to chew on.
So a general, with a history of medical problems is suspended from the military. His suspension increases his mental problems and he starts to contemplate suicide. His wife, who has influential friends and family, writes some letters, pulls some strings and gets him back in the army believing it will help with his mental condition. So you have a mentally unstable, possibly depressed and suicidal man in charge of a large portion of the union army. That’s really disturbing. It amazes me that such corruption could exist in the midst of war and how easily the north let a mentally unstable general run around in the south with an army of soldiers.
Certainly Maine had something to do with the US victory at Gettysburg. Perhaps if you watched Gods and Generals or some of the television shows on the subject you would be aware of the various US Army units with state designations.
And of course the 1st Alabama Cavalry was the escort of Sherman as he went on his tour of Georgia.
If he was so unstable, I guess it would have been easy for the southern insurrection to defeat him.
Since they couldn’t, then the diagnosis of mental instability must have been healed or incorrect. As for depression, accurately foreseeing the likely course of the war would do that to someone who loved his country. Lee appreciated that military officers are called on to destroy that which they love, in course of duty.
“If nominated I will not run, if elected, I will not serve.”
Certainly he was able to clearly state his intentions as to political office.
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