Population genetics reveals shared ancestries

Harvard Medical School ^ | May 24, 2011 | Unknown

[martin_fierro]

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[SunkenCiv]

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• Population genetics reveals shared ancestries

[sodpoodle]

***Languages mark who was in charge at the time.***

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Churchills-History-of-the-English-Speaking-Peoples/Winston-S-Churchill/e/9781566198134

You betchyah!!

[sodpoodle]

Communication defines us - so an enduring, dominant language is in fact ‘the coin of the realm’.

[sodpoodle]

One of my premier dictionaries had a flow chart of all the World’s languages - showing the fusion of one into another. Fascinating.

Then I lost it!!!!!

[BIGLOOK]

Trying to discover the origins of a beach by examining a single grain of sand would produce some result....but the wrong one in every case.

Consider this; genetic alterations can take place in a species over the lifetime of the individual, due to environment, diet, stress and most likely half a dozen other factors we can't yet fathom. Analyzing genetic information from the past and extrapolating it into theory in present is a worthless endeavor.

Toss out linguistic analysis too. It tries hard to be objective but ends up in the same subjective dilemma as all history depending on the current state of affairs and prejudices. The study of languages and language change, while it retains some of the syntax, some of the phonemes and a bit of a historical record of people, its bases are generational or epochal and fleeting.

All languages were pidgin at some time until they became official and noble....and then degraded back to pidgin.

[OldNavyVet]

All it really shows is that the fallacies of 'begging the question' and 'affirming the consequent' have dominated the discipline formerly known as science.

Here's a line I just happened to have read, and underlined, about one hour ago.

It was the greatest sensation of existence: not to trust, but to know.

[Yaelle]

Not at all surprising. I have one relative and one friend who look like they could be sisters. They both have the same tan skin, the same long beautiful brown ringlety hair. Their facial features are rounded, they have full lips. They are both quite pretty. One is of Jewish ancestry, the other has a black dad and white mom.

[allmendream]

It is thought that the reason the “Indo-European” languages spread from India to Ireland was that the warlike chariot driving sheep herding people were among the first to use mounted men (and chariots) in warfare successfully.

We know they drove chariots rode horses and herded sheep because the words involved are all basically the same in all Indo-European languages.

[GourmetDan]

"Here's a line I just happened to have read, and underlined, about one hour ago."

"It was the greatest sensation of existence: not to trust, but to know."

Followed by "Do they call it a low, animal joy -- this feeling that I would not care if the rail did break to bits under us now -- it won't -- but I wouldn't care, because I have experienced this? A low, physical, material, degrading pleasure of the body?"

and

"Their soul is in every man who has the capacity to equal this achievement. Should the soul vanish from the earth, the motors would stop, because that is the power which keeps them going..."

Such is the 'power' of fallacy. One thinks something is 'known' when it is not known at all.

[wintertime]

I think language is an interesting parallel to evolution.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Language has an interesting parallel to **micro** evolution.

I find it interesting the most compelling arguments against macro-evolution are coming from mathematicians and statisticians.

[allmendream]

The only ones pushing such arguments are cranks far removed from Science.

Amazing how much creationist rely upon lawyers mathematicians and statisticians to comment on a subject none of them even understands.

Population genetics among all humans show the same markers of common descent in miniature that we see between humans and all other primates.

You can deny it until you are blue in the face - but it doesn't help matters much that you have no clue at all what those markers are and what they mean.

The same method to determine that Amerindians are more closely related to Siberian Asians than any other human population are the exact same method that shows that humans are more closely related to chimpanzees (and chimpanzees are more closely related to humans) than either is to any other primate.

[wintertime]

Mathematics and statistics are the foundation of all serious science and research. Gee! I thought you would know that.

You should also know the difference between micro-evolution and macro-evolution.

[OldNavyVet]

Good catch!

But ...

Such is the 'power' of fallacy. One thinks something is 'known' when it is not known at all.

How do you know that?

[GourmetDan]

"How do you know that?"

Are you trying to use the "Who is to say" fallacy?

[allmendream]

Mathematicians and statisticians have no particular knowledge or insight into biological evolution - neither do lawyers. Yet creationists seem to rely upon them almost exclusively.

There is no mechanistic difference between the evolution we see within a single species - and the evolution we see that creates different species from a common ancestor.

The same markers we see showing the common ancestry of all dogs and wolves and the same markers we see showing the common ancestry of primates and humans.

You can say it isn't so all you want - but it would help if you knew and understood what those markers are. You don't.

[Verginius Rufus]

They also had telephones--the word for "telephone" is almost identical in most Indo-European languages.

Seriously, Indo-European linguistics is fascinating--a lot can be learned about the "Proto-Indo-Europeans" from studying the words inherited by the daughter languages. There are sometimes striking similarities in inherited words and customs as far apart as India, Italy, and Ireland.

They do seem to have been very warlike--"to live by war and plunder is of all things most glorious" as Herodotus said of the Thracians (Indo-European-speakers).

[OldNavyVet]

Regarding your "fallacy" assertions ...

Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive

Sir Walter Scott

[allmendream]

Yes, but they most certainly didn't have a written language or books. ;)

In the modern world things are invented and the name for it spreads with the invention.

In the ancient world things were often independently discovered or developed - and thus different words were used to describe them (books, letters, etc).

I sometimes joke to anyone who tells me they are “Persian” that I am a “Thracian” or “Sarmatian” - usually they don't get the joke.

[Verginius Rufus]

One language borrowing words from another ("loanwords") is a very old practice. The Greek language has a lot of words that the earliest Greek-speaking inhabitants of Greece took over from an earlier language. The Anglo-Saxon words for "wine" and "cheese" come from Latin (before they came into contact with the Romans they didn't have wine & cheese parties, just beer blasts).

Finnish, Estonian, and Hungarian are not "Indo-European" languages but belong to the "Finno-Ugric" family--their words for "100" are of Indo-European origin. The Hungarian words for Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday come from a Slavic language. The English colonists of Virginia took the words for "tomahawk," "mocassin," and "opossum" from the local Indians.