Obama finally admits he's Muslim

The Post & EMail ^ | 6/14/2010 | Sharon Rondeau

[curiosity]

Here is why I think Obama is a hardcore atheist: his ongoing macabre and stomach-turning support of partial birth abortion, and the strong stand he took for placing a baby who had survived partial birth abortion in with the dirty laundry, to die of hypothermia and dehydration. No man with even a scintilla of suspicion that a just God might possibly exist could champion such causes.

Unfortunately, atheists don't have a monopoly on atrocities. Plenty of theists have supported things just as bad as the above, if not worse.

[curiosity]

Namely, his failure to repudiate any of the messianic and actual ‘god’ talk associated with him.

He even jokes about it. There's a comedic event in New York every election (called a "roast" of some sort), where candidates attempt to make speaches billed with self-deprecating humor. I remember hearing on the radio that Obama said, "Contrary to what many people think, I wasn't born in a manger."

[Fantasywriter]

We can agree to disagree on that one. [I’m unaware of a group of theists who advocate a barbaric level of sadism against the smallest and most helpless among us. (Or perhaps you don’t think babies are anything special, and they should just man up and take being unspeakably and savagely tortured to death like any other adult/older human.)]

So how about Obama’s appearance at Georgetown. He commanded that all Christian symbols be covered before he spoke. Two scenarios:

Agnostic Obama: I’m going to speak at a Christian University. There are symbols of God there. Since I think there may actually exist a god, I’d better be the first speaker in history to order such symbols covered with cheap ply-board and black paint. That way, just in case there really is a god, he will see that he’s been erased from the scene, and realize I’m too humble to be seen in the same room as his symbols.

Atheist Obama: I’ll speak at this Christian University, but damned if I’ll be seen in the same room as symbols of this phony Christian myth-god. People might get the impression I believe in Him, and that’s unaccetable.

[itsahoot]

We (I) don’t care what the person’s racial or religious background is as long as it’s not anti-American or based on the destruction of our declared judeo-christian values.

Nope just pointing out that rules vary, depending on the mission. Sort of like they do for Congress, and the lowly Tax Payer.

[Fantasywriter]

“We (I) don’t care what the person’s racial or religious background is as long as it’s not anti-American or based on the destruction of our declared judeo-christian values.”

Not playing dumb, here, hoot, but I don’t know who you’re quoting. I didn’t type the above. I have no idea who did. Fwiw.

[curiosity]

We can agree to disagree on that one. [I’m unaware of a group of theists who advocate a barbaric level of sadism against the smallest and most helpless among us.

Unfortunately, there are lots of pro-abortion people who believe in God and fancy themselves Christians. They may not be true Christians, but they certainly do believe in God, or at the very least, some vague "higher power."

To take another extreme example, Hitler was a theist. Some athesists will say he was a Christian, which IMHO is a stretch, as his theology was massively at odds with that of any mainstream demonination. He had some place for Christ in his religious "system," but his idea of Jesus was so massively different from what any Christian Church had ever taught, that to call him "Christian" is to make a mockery of language.

Nevertheless, he certainly was a thesit. Of that there is no doubt.

So how about Obama’s appearance at Georgetown. He commanded that all Christian symbols be covered before he spoke. Two scenarios:

There's a third scenario. He's a wishy-washy theist who belives in some vague higher power, but doesn't like organized religion. He despises the moral code imposed by Christianity, and doesn't like the doctrinal orthodoxy demanded by most Christian churches, so he doesn't like Christian symbols.

Again, you don't have to be an atheist to not like Christian symbols.

I agree with you that he's most likely not an agnostic.

[Fantasywriter]

Do you have a quote, where Hitler mentions his theistic beliefs?

Your explanation of Obama’s removal of the symbols is the weakest of the three, imho. Unless you can be more convincing, I’ll go with the simplest and most straightforward explanation, since it dovetails the radical views he’s taken on infanticide.

Btw, who is the highest profile Christian, or so called Christian (other than Obama) that’s championing the cause of partial birth abortion, and who has also taken a strong public stand in favor of allowing babies who survive abortion to die in the used linen room. Since you referenced them, you must know their names.

[curiosity]

Do you have a quote, where Hitler mentions his theistic beliefs?

This wikipedia article is full of them. While I agree Wikipedia isn't always reliable, but in this case the quotes and references are well-documented with an external links, so you can verify them for yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views

Btw, who is the highest profile Christian, or so called Christian (other than Obama) that’s championing the cause of partial birth abortion,

Here's a bunch of them:

http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/about/board/default.asp

[Fantasywriter]

Thanks for the citations. I don’t do wikipedia, so they’re no use to me.

Name, by name, one of the Catholics on your list who has spoken publicly in favor of dumping a live baby in the soiled linen room until it dies. Obama stood alone, twice, for this option in the Illinois senate. I’m sure a person as well informed as you knows of his stance/history.

I’m also sure you’re smart enough to know I wasn’t asking for a list of Catholics who support abortion. I’m looking for a prominent Christian who publicly supports treating a live, breathing, human baby like a piece of trash. Given Obama’s record of same, that’s not too much to ask.

[curiosity]

Thanks for the citations. I don’t do wikipedia, so they’re no use to me.

Okay. I found an online version of Mein Kampf, and here's a quote demonstrating that Hitler believed in God:

The two Christian denominations look on with indifference at the profanation and destruction of a noble and unique creature who was given to the world as a gift of God's grace. For the future of the world, however, it does not matter which of the two triumphs over the other, the Catholic or the Protestant. But it does matter whether Aryan humanity survives or perishes....Everybody who has the right kind of feeling for his country is solemnly bound, each within his own denomination, to see to it that he is not constantly talking about the Will of God merely from the lips but that in actual fact he fulfils the Will of God and does not allow God's handiwork to be debased. For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties.

You can find it here. Just search on a string of text:

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601.txt

There's lots more where that came from. If you search on "God," or "creator," you'll find lots more references.

Name, by name, one of the Catholics on your list who has spoken publicly in favor of dumping a live baby in the soiled linen room until it dies. Obama stood alone, twice, for this option in the Illinois senate.

Jon O'Brien, president of Catholics for Choice, publicly took the same position as Obama did on the born-alive act. By all accounts, he really does believe in God. At least he proudly prclaims it.

[Fantasywriter]

Here’s my take on Hitler. If making a statement such as the one you quoted qualifies a man as a theist, then the word ‘theist’ is meaningless. Anybody can say anything, and if it’s just a matter of a certain phrasing, then anybody can be anything.

For example. I love meat and eat it. According to you, if I write certain words about vegetarianism, I can be a vegetarian. My actions have no bearing on the matter whatsoever.

If this makes no sense to you, then do we really have anything more to discuss? I don’t have an endless amount of time. This discussion hasn’t seemed like it is going anywhere for a while now. You appear to think that Hitler being a theist, according to your definition, means something. I’ll grant he was a theist only if the corollary is that the word is meaningless.

And no, I still don’t think Obama is even that. He acts like a full on atheist, and unless you give me persuasive evidence otherwise, I will believe the evidence over your bald assertions.

As to the Catholic you named, I do not have the facts. I’m pinging somebody who might. We’ll see, if she’s available, if she an shed any light on the matter.

Mrs. Don-o, I am told that a prominent Catholic advocates setting babies out like garbage to die. I didn’t know who else to ask. Can you tell me if this is true or not? Profuse thank yous in advance. :)

[curiosity]

Here’s my take on Hitler. If making a statement such as the one you quoted qualifies a man as a theist, then the word ‘theist’ is meaningless.

That's just one example. He made hundreds of statements like that, in public and in private. He also both publicly and privately disdainful of atheists, and he used the Nazi state to encourage religious education over secular education.

[Fantasywriter]

I may have thought of a neat and clean solution to this theist discussion. Let’s agree that the definition is: one who pays lip service to a god or gods and who commits genocide under that rubric.

Semantically, this may be a breakthrough. You get the pleasure of labeling Hitler a theist, and I get the satisfaction of seeing that the word actually has meaning.

Win/win

[Maverick68]

obama is a muslim piece of shit (redundant?).

[DontTreadOnMe2009]

RUFKM??? Did anyone EVER actually believe a man named BARRACK HUSSEIN OBAMA was a Christian???

Exactly how far would your head have to be up your as$ not to know THAT was a lie?

---

Pretty far ???

[Mrs. Don-o]

First, what do you mean by theist"? If it just means a person who believes that there is a Supreme Being, then you'd need to ask "Just who is this Supreme Being he says he believes in?"

Jesus had this to say to some Pharisees who were “ready to kill him”:

John 8:43
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

So in my opinion Hitler, Obama, and Jon O'Brien and his colleagues over at Catholics for Choice are, yes, theists. And their god or gods, whether they admit it or not, are the demons.

Adolph Hitler, like O'Brien and his gang, is also Catholic --- in a strictly technical sense --- as is anyone who was validly baptized. If they do not repent of their serious sins, they will face hellfire.

Though we don't know with de fide certainty that any particular person is damned or is "going to be" damned (this knowledge has not been permitted us) it is certainly reasonable to infer that there are plenty of that-kind-of theists, and that-kind-of-Catholics, in hell.

[Fantasywriter]

Thank you for weighing in, Mrs. Don-o. I knew you would have some valuable insight. You’re so correct on all points. In that sense, the devil himself is a theist, as are all the demons. The Bible, in the Book of James, says:

“You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.” [NIV]

I guess they were even better theists than Hitler, in that sense, because they trembled over the knowledge of one God, whereas he appears only to have used it for propaganda.

As to Jon O’Brien, is it actually true that he opposed the Infant Born Alive Protection Act? I find this hard to believe even of a pro-choice Catholic. I thought you would know, hence the ping.

Thanks again; you’re wonderful!

[curiosity]

Mrs. Don-o and I are in full agreement.

Fantasywriter: I get no pleasure in labeling Hitler as a theist. I'm simply trying to be accurate.

I don't believe such a label is an abuse of language, nor does it render the word meaningless.

By theism, I simply mean a belief in a supreme being. Lots of evil people in the world have held that belief, Hitler included. It doesn't guarantee that a person will be a good person. Nor does it guarantee that a person will refrain from committing horrendous acts.

That's my only point. I get no pleasure in it. It's just reality, and I think we Christians need to accept it.

It also means that you cannot infer atheism from evil acts. Not all evil people are atheists, and not all atheists are evil people.

Again, I take no pleasure in this. It's just a fact.

Of course, some of the most evil people were atheists. In fact, since I believe Stalin to be the most evil person in the history of the world, I'd go as far as to say the most evil person in history was an atheist.

But there were still many people who do evil things who weren't atheists, and hence I don't think you can infer atheism from Obama's voting against the Illinois born alive act.

[Mrs. Don-o]

“You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.” [NIV]

Good catch.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Very true.