Horseback-Riding Accident Kills Fla. Girl

local6 ^ | 22-march-2007

[HairOfTheDog]

So if you know all that... why did you say you'd take some as-yet-unknown plaintiff's case?

[CindyDawg]

Your stables. Your horses but...... You called me a HORSEWOMAN! About time. Made my day.:')

[CindyDawg]

:')

[HairOfTheDog]

:~)

[AnAmericanMother]

IF the horse had a vicious propensity (as it appeared to from Xena's first post), and IF the horse was allowed to continue at the barn, and IF the owners didn't disclose the propensity, and IF the horse injured another person in a similar manner . . . yeah, I'd take the case. So would any attorney.

I haven't done much plaintiff's work, but that's open and shut, even with the equine immunity statute.

Big caveat: that's a lot of "IF"s, but if that's the way it shook out it would be a good case. Good in the sense of having some value for an injured plaintiff.

[HairOfTheDog]

Every kid in the barn knew to stay away from that horse. I don't think there's any failure to disclose.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

:)

Becky

[AnAmericanMother]

But biting in the stall is not the same vicious propensity as deliberately jumping onto a rider after dumping him. I think the liability situation would arise if somebody was allowed to ride him without being told about that, not chomping on a kid who got too close. Perhaps if they were selling him and letting prospective purchasers ride him (of course that's where a lot of problems arise, because the owners are trying to sell the horse and are sometimes too reticent about his bad habits . . . )

That's why my trainer got rid of her colt. He was just too mean to keep around, he was bad in the stall, bad in the paddock, and bad under saddle. He was a walking liability suit, and I'm glad she sold him, too many kids around the barn.

[HairOfTheDog]

I am honestly baffled that you've got yourself so convinced he deliberately jumped on the rider. Not when there's as much momentum and speed as there is going over a jump. You'd better have it on film.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Could it be proved that the horse deliberately jumped onto the rider after dumping him? I didn't read that that was a deliberate act on the part of the horse.

Becky

[HairOfTheDog]

In order to prove it as a deliberate act, I want to see film that shows the horse came back for a second pass... not that he merely landed on him over a jump he'd just executed rather badly.

[AnAmericanMother]

I keep saying I need more facts. I'd LOVE film. But all we have is a hearsay report - from Xena - that she understood from the account she heard that the horse's actions were deliberate.

All I'm saying is, that IF the action was deliberate, that's the horse's "first bite" (that's a term of art - in this case deliberately jumping on somebody) and another bite will be actionable.

We don't have any evidence here that would hold up in a court. IF the story shook out as I noted earlier, it would be a case. But we don't know. So I'm NOT "convinced" of anything, as you put it.

But it's a cautionary tale for all of us to be careful about horses with known problems, and always warning anybody who rides them. THAT's the validity to us here, not whether or not some hypothetical person in the future could sue.

[woodbutcher]

I got my first horse in 1941.

I have at times had as many as 18 and as few as two.

I still ride and jump fences.

I have had as my friends some of the very top names in the horse business and known many many others.

I am not spouting.

As an example, George Morris, the most successful trainer of jump riders in the US (who I never met but only know by reputation) is reputed to have once made his students drink from their horse's water bucket. He is reputed to have told them that if it was not clean enough for them, it was not clean enough for their horse.

Although he is known for being hard nosed with his students, his attitude toward his horses is typical of those you see riding in the A rated shows.

Becky does not know what she is talking about.

Owning and riding a horse does not make one a horseman.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Having friends who are "very top names in the horse business" doesn't make you a horse person either.

I don't really understand what your problem is with what I said. I voiced an opinion, which is ALL you have done to, no facts proving anything. So in my opinion YOU don't know what you are talking about.

Becky

[HairOfTheDog]

I am not spouting.

You are spouting. And name dropping, apparently... about a trainer who believes in clean water buckets, or obedient students, I guess.

Becky does not know what she is talking about.

Care to quote one thing she said that isn't a valid matter of opinion about which horsemen may very well disagree?

[HairOfTheDog]

OK - enough said about your weak case AAM, lets rest and let the jury decide LOL :~D

[warsaw44]

"I did equine related litigation for many years"

Seriously, I have never heard of this specialty and I'm no city slicker. Well - I wasn't when I was a kid growing up in very rural Maine. Is such litigation very common? I would have thought a legal expertise which concentrated on farm / ranch animals would be common but one just for horses really fascinates me.
I was never much for horses having greatly preferred bovine. A neighbor raised Belted Galloways and they were very gentle and I grew up working with dairy cows every summer. Wonderful animals!

[woodbutcher]

To: HairOfTheDog

Well, then I don't understand why people do it...any more then I understand bronc riders, and bull riders...

And I also know that jumping is hard on a horse, usually breaks them down before they would if they weren't jumping.

Just don't get it.

Becky

---

The above quote is a start.

As for your remark about name dropping, you will note that I said up front that I never met George Morris.

Therefore, it is not name dropping to refer to his teaching methods.

No more than if I were to quote a line from one of his many books and articles.

If I wanted to impress you with name dropping, I am quite sure I could. You might be surprised at the names of persons who I do know.

But all of that is beside the point.

It is a disservice to a very large part of our horse world to say that it causes horses damage, when it fact it does so only when and if abused and that is a totally different matter.

As for not understanding why people want to jump horses, the best answer is what has already been given. It is a rush. It is like down hill skiing, which I do not do but I with which I can emphasize.

No matter how many fences you have jumped, the next one is as big a thrill as the first one you jumped 66 years ago.

Each jump is an exercise in timing, coordination and cooperation between the horse and the rider. Move your hands or shift your weight at the wrong time, even in the most imperceptible manner, and you either throw the horse's timing off, or his balance, or signal to him that you are nervous, and you get either a bad jump or a refusal.

There is also the willpower and self control involved in getting forward when your own instinct for self preservation tells you to sit back or "brace".

Very few go through what it takes to be a good jump rider believing they are ruining the horse.

By the way, good jumpers bring big money. $25,000....$250,000...whatever.

I have a good friend that once sold a jumper for $1,000,000.

I am not in close touch with that end of the horse business now so I have no idea what the record is now.

But the point is that kind of horse gets treated like a baby, or a movie star.

[woodbutcher]

What American Mother is telling you in a polite lawyerly way is that it does not matter what you think, nor what she thinks.
The trial will not take place in front of 12 knowledgeable horsemen.

Lawyers pick jurors who can be swayed by their arguments.

Schoolteachers, barbers, lathe operators. People who have had no experience with horses.

The defendant's attorney would like to have a couple on the jury, but the plaintiff will excuse them.

Now take someone who knows nothing about horses and put before him that this horse "stomped on" etc.

And the defendant knew it.

And why would she take it?

Because our system is set up believing that anyone and everyone, no matter how silly they might seem to you, is entitled to his day in court. What is silly to you and me could well be the most serious event in his life.

So everyone is entitled to a good lawyer, if only to see that the law is properly interpreted. Even if the villain is indefensible, he is entitled to have the law applied to him correctly, in accordance with the law and the Constitution.

With that, I am going to the house. A good ride on a beautiful day is the next thing on order.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

It is a disservice to a very large part of our horse world to say that it causes horses damage, when it fact it does so only when and if abused and that is a totally different matter.

I don't care what it's a disservice to, it's my opinion. High impact sports is hard on joints, jumping is high impact....Jumping for the thrill it gives the rider is selfish at best. JMO.

y the way, good jumpers bring big money. $25,000....$250,000...whatever. I have a good friend that once sold a jumper for $1,000,000.

Which proves there is a fool born every day:) IMO.

Give me a break lady. I stated my opinion, you disagree...but you have given absolutely no facts to change my opinion, you've just spouted off opinions. That's fine, that's what this forum is for.

Becky