The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread! - Thread 11

[BladeRider]

I FINALLY got my taxes done and e-filed today, so I'm sitting pretty now.

Ha! I beat you! I did mine last Wednesday night!

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

You can’t abuse a horse into giving that kind of effort, it’s just her personality.

She’s a hotter temperament than the black horse.

Put these two comments together, maybe the black horse was abused.?

That's the whole point of my comments, who knows what's in the mind of a horse. I don't think you can know, they could have both had the same treatment, but the black horse's temperament was such that the training WAS abusive for him, or he was just a less hot horse...the mare could have been more animated tho the training that was exactly the same as the blacks was abusive for her, or she is just hotter...who knows...no one does. That's why I find the comments like "she likes" what she is doing rather interesting....and sometimes plain stupid.

Becky

[FrogInABlender]

Nothing like waiting to the last minute is there. Every year I say that I’m not going to do that, and every year I seem to do it. I always get money back too, so it’s doubly stupid on my part. But I guess technically I did better than last year, because I really had until tomorrow to get them filed. Today is some kind of holiday, but I have no idea what it is. I’m sure that a lot of people were really relieved about that.

[BladeRider]

Hey - congratulations! Great wins! Got pictures?

Not personally, I have to wait for them to come back fromt he show photographer. I was in the ring showing so could not take pictures. It was a nice weekend. Thanks.

[BladeRider]

Today is some kind of holiday, but I have no idea what it is.

Patriots Day. I always say I am going to get mine done the first of March and I wait until the last minute too. I usually get a refund to so I guess we are both in the same doubly stupid category.

[FrogInABlender]

Patriot’s Day?! What the heck is that? Sounds like one of those stupid made-up goverment holidays because somebody wanted a day off in April. Give me a break!

Of course I’m just having a case of sour grapes. You wouldn’t dare catch me complaining about it if I was off today! ;o)

[HairOfTheDog]

I don’t think either horse was abused, and I don’t think either horse hated what they were doing. I think both riders have pretty close relationships with those horses to have achieved what they have, the horses just have different personalities.

Yes, they were working for a living, and they’d probably love to be running free in green fields instead of working, but who wouldn’t? I’m not all that bothered by people saying it looks like the horse is having a great time. I actually think they both were. :~)

[Beaker]

Well I do know one thing, when horses don't want to do something, they'll tell you right away. :-) Unfortunately we can't read their minds, but if you know your horse, you know when they're comfortable doing something or not comfortable with it, and that's what you have to go by, I guess. Towards the end with my first horse, I knew that he just didn't want to do ring work anymore, and got very ring sour, and was much happier out on the trail, so that's what we did most of the time. He'd go for a couple of hours riding on the trail before he got tired, but you couldn't get him in the ring for 20 minutes.

And like I said before in a different post, I think that Oliver likes to work for me, even my trainer knows the difference, so I guess it also depends on the horse/rider team.

[Beaker]

thanks for finding that and giving the rest of the story :~)

No problem, I'm just glad that I could contribute something. Though if you go back and watch Anky's ride, she committed two faults. Her horse stopped at the gate, and didn't halt at X to start the test.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I would say too, the horses were probably not abuse.

But playing devils advocate:), no one knows.

You would say both horses were having a great time, I would say both horses were just well trained.

You say both riders have close relationships with those horses, I say close relationships does not necessarily mean it’s a good relationship.

I guess I’m just more skeptical of human nature. The higher the level of training a horse shows, the higher the stakes are in the competition, the more money involved, the more I wonder about methods of training.

Becky

[BladeRider]

Of course I’m just having a case of sour grapes. You wouldn’t dare catch me complaining about it if I was off today! ;o)

Probably something like our Robert E Lee day ;o)

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Well I do know one thing, when horses don't want to do something, they'll tell you right away. :-)

I agree, I think tail swishing is the horse telling us something.

In very high levels of competition, were a lot of money is concerned, some handlers may not care as you did tho, about what the horse likes and dislikes, they will MAKE them do it by whatever means it takes. Human nature.

I'm truly not trying to offend anyone here. It's not just in dressage horse that I wonder about this at times.

I was telling Mack just now about this discussion. My points are more about commentators saying things like "the horse likes"...they are pulling that out their butts. They don't know, it romanticizes, and I dislike romanticizing anything about horses. It's very misleading.

Becky

[FrogInABlender]

You actually GET Robert E. Lee Day off?! OHFERCRYINOUTLOUD!

[CindyDawg]

I don’t think the term liked is stupid. You could sub another word but it’s just people describing how they see a horse performing. The black horse seemed so trained that he was robotic. The white one knew her routine too and was following instructions but her rider was bringing her personality out too. I would think that would be the hardest to train. I saw her think about checking out the flower box and then getting checked and back to dancing. He was just trend setting (and sorry Hair) trying to take some of the stuffiness out. Maybe if the black horse had been expected to do something to win I might not be so unimpressed.

[CindyDawg]

Actually, I chuckled about their comments on the white horse. They knew what to say about the black but were searching about the white. It was like they didn’t want to be impressed but had to say something. Why they would say she liked to dance, made me wonder what they saw in her that they didn’t in him. I just don’t think “liked” was a compliment lol.

[Beaker]

In very high levels of competition, were a lot of money is concerned, some handlers may not care as you did tho, about what the horse likes and dislikes, they will MAKE them do it by whatever means it takes.

Well I think that we need to take the verb "like" right out of the picture, because we have no way of knowing it the horse "likes" anything. And that, I think, is what we're getting hung up on. When a baby pulls on a dog's ear and the dog sits there and an adult says "Look at him, he LIKES it" we know that isn't true. The dog just knows better than to bite the baby.

I know that you aren't trying to offend anyone, BUT the important thing that I want to tell you about dressage, even if it's just for the sake of discussion, (and believe me, I'm not upset) is that it involves the horse's brain, and horses without good brains can't advance nearly as high as the horses that we're watching in these videos. There's a reason why dressage is leveled, and it ain't for the rider's sake, it's for the horse's sake. If that horse didn't have the ability and more importantly, the brain to advance, then Helingrand wouldn't have taken her this far. Most importantly, he wouldn't have wasted the money.

Another thing is that you find very few horses with the ability to advance to the 4th level. It fries their brain, and if something fries their brain, they aren't going to it well, or even do it at all. It just ain't gonna happen! :-) We have one mare, the black mare that I've posted pictures of, who can't get past the leg yield. Push her any more and she goes to pieces.

[BladeRider]

You actually GET Robert E. Lee Day off?! OHFERCRYINOUTLOUD!

ROFLMOA! NO! We don't get it off, they don't even call it Robert E Lee Day, it is Martin Luther King Day. I was just messin with ya!

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Good post Beaker:)

Becky

[FrogInABlender]

It’s not nice to mess with me on a Monday! My brain is still on weekend-time.

[CindyDawg]

I pretty much know what Cindy likes. She tells me.:’) If she sees a baby coming, they don’t get close to her ears. When I expect her to let the little ones learn to be gentle, she sits there and tolerates them, looking at me like, “the things I have to suffer thru” My horses let me know if they don’t like something either. I am just going to have to respectfully disagree with yall. I think you can get an idea if an animal likes something or not.
jc