Posted on 10/25/2006 7:54:41 AM PDT by BILL_C
All three two recovered bullets were forward of the victims.
The first bullet was never recovered. The curb was hit, and James Tague was hit in the face by a fragment, but no fragments from that bullet were recovered. The only bullet fragments found were in the limo, in Connally's or Kennedy's body, plus CE399 in the hospital. After testing, it was concluded that all the fragments (including CE399) came from a total of two bullets.
Sorry, you're correct. The first bullet hit the curb at the underpass. The second was found on Connelly's stretcher at Parkland and accounts for the shallow wound in his thigh. The third broke off at the cannelure and one piece cracked the windshield. The photo of that crack was taken by some newsy at Parkland Hospital. The second fragment dented the inside windshield chrome support.
Why do you ignore the fact that the Connallys both said John Connally was hit after Kennedy was hit the first time?
That would make four shots and blow your theory.
But everyone knows you make things up.
You still haven't backed up your accusation that I said the government and Lady Bird Johnson killed Kennedy.
I know you are trying to ignore this but it just proves that you make things up and ignore what doesn't suit you and are not accountable for what you say.
YOU ARE THE CRACKPOT.
If you don't believe this, ask him to list the shooters and their precise positions. You won't get a straight answer.
Ask what happened on the first three shots? You did and I told you that my title is explaining the wounds to John Connally NOT explaining all the shots. I'll do that later. You see, IF you believe that Connally was shot in the back at Z=325, 0.7 seconds AFTER the shot to JFK's head at Z=313, then he had to have had the bullet fragment hit his leg at a different time.
You contend that I don't know what happened on the first three shots, and there are some unknowns as I still haven't learned everything I need to know. Even though you don't realize it, you're teaching me things :-) You posted a Dale Meyers' computer generated picture of John Kennedy's shoulders raised high to explain the shirt being pulled up on his back. Meyers has no evidence Kennedy's shoulder's were that high when the bullet him in the back but it's necessary for JFK to be contorted in that way if the single bullet theory is to be believed. Similarily, I can't prove some of the things in the first three shots unless some assumptions are made but IF Connally was shot in the back after JFK's fatal head shot, then he had to have been hit previously in the left leg with the bullet fragment. We see Connally react starting at Z=224 but there is no way to show that's what happened definitively.
Back to the last shot, a basic premise of mine is that IF John Connally was struck in the back at Z frame 325, then that means that a corrupt government investigation was performed as there is no way that an investigative team hearing so many people tell them that it didn't happen that way could get this so wrong.
What evidence do we have that the Warren Commission was a corrupt investigation? I'm overloaded, where would you start listing the problems with the Warren Commission and the information released for 40+ years? The reason we're discussing this is that the majority of Americans think the government lied. People who were there said it did NOT happen as the Warren Commission said it did.
Now I realize you are very genuine in your beliefs, and please extend me the same courtesy, because I am equally sincere. We both individually are sure we are right, but in reality only one of us can be right, I'm sure we can agree on that point,and that's probably the only point we can agree on right now.
Scenario ONE: The Warren Commission identified a single bullet that hit President Kennedy in the back (below the neck) which exited his neck and hit Governor Connally in the back, exited his chest after destroying about 10 cm of one rib, hit him in the right wrist and then deposited a bullet fragment into his left leg (it was NOT THE BULLET which hit him in the left leg, it was a bullet FRAGMENT!).
Scenario TWO: On the third shot fired of the first volley of shots (before the limo is seen after the Stemmons Freeway sign), a bullet fragment hits John Connally in the left leg. Connally can be seen reacting starting at Z=224 where his lapel bounces out as he quickly raises both arms up in reaction to a minor leg wound. You can see Connally look quickly to his left and then he turns to look over his left shoulder over the next (approximately) 5 seconds. The turn is not believable IF Connally really had a severe chest wound at that time as scenario number one has as it's center piece. Remember, there is supposedly a hole in the exit wound of his chest that's large, and NO evidence is seen on the Z film that even exists at that time. At Z=313 a shot hits JFK in the head and knocks him back and to his left. The shooter in the TSBD aiming at the back of JFK's head fires slightly later, but misses as JFK's head is knocked backwards and to the left. The bullet misses JKF's head and strikes John Connally in the back which drives him forward at Z=325. This is consistent with the way John Connally says he was hit and how he was knocked forward. We can see his head snap downward starting at Z=325 in the Zapruder film.
So how do we figure who's right?
You have (for scenario #1) the Warren Commission, Main Stream media, books like Gerald Possner's "Case Closed", Dale Meyer's computer animation (and ABC produced BEYOND CONSPIRACY), DIscovery Channel's BEYOND THE MAGIC BULLET and zillions of other articles, documentaries, ........
For scenario #2, which has never been seriously considered before, we have one of the witnesses who was shot in the back tell me he's knocked forward by the shot when it hits him in the back. Connally shot at Z=325 in the back is consistent with that fact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3-lZNR_yAc
We have John Connally's wife who sat right next to him say she saw John Connally turn AFTER the first bullet hit JFK and he wasn't struck for what Nellie Connally thought was two seconds after JFK's first wound. On national TV she says she asked the Warren Commission how the bullet could hang in the air for seconds?
We have a witness who says the limo was in Detroit after the assassination, the windshield was removed and the interior was stripped. The windshield was replaced and the original one was scrapped.
We have an FBI agent who was at the autopsy who says that when the wound in JFK's back was found (and it was by another FBI agent, NOT a doctor), Francis O'Neal quoted the Doctor as saying he probed with his finger NO POINT OF EXIT, the doctor then probed with a small surgical probe, NO POINT OF EXIT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sSAvuVfcKQ
I can put up clips like this all day long and show you people who say things that are NOT consistent with the Warren Commission's findings of a single bullet striking both JFK and John Connally.
To explain what's going on, I contend we either have a lot of idiots who you describe as "unreliable witnesses"
OR
We have a corrupt investigation led by J. Edgar Hoover backed by President Lyndon B. Johnson who by other evidence was about to not only be removed as Vice-President on the Democratic ticket, he was going to jail too (I haven't introduced any evidence to support that claim, but there's plenty out there that exists). I only mention LBJ's criminal past as to support the premise that LBJ was under extreme pressure and like a wounded animal he fought back.
So there is the motive for LBJ. Why did so many people get on national TV and say they saw it differently? What could be their motive?
The simple explanation is it was a corrupt investigation. The simple explanation is LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover were behind cooking up the scenario, of setting up Oswald to shoot JFK. Oswald should have been killed in the theatre for Cop Killing but it didn't go down as planned. Many things went wrong that day, it should be OBVIOUS now, but it's not.
Tell me why all those people who were there got it wrong and the Warren Commission figured out they were mistaken. Occam's razor is very applicable here.
For the first time, we have a scenario postulated that is consistent with what many of the witnesses who were there on Nov. 22, 1963 in Dallas. The Warren Commission single bullet scenario is not consistent with what they said happend. Explain to me why you are right and why not only why I'm wrong, explain to me why the people who were there are so wrong in their statements.
Remember, all those people could NOT have a simple collective motive and surely I made it clear that I don't think it is a credible agrument that all those witnesses were mistaken about all those different things. Many of the eye witnesses agree with scenario #2, Connally shot in the back at Z=325, not with the Warren Commission single bullet theory. Explaining WHY the Warren Commission was corrupt is simple, LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover wanted power. Both were being swept aside and killing JFK was the simple way to get power.
I've seen them in Shotgun News for as low as 3 for $69.95, non-shooting statement required. They are not a bad little rifle, I just have problems anyone using a scope getting off that many rounds *accurately* in that time span. Oswald was also a Marine.
If one understand Marine Corp base training, then they would think he would have used a M-1 Garand or a Star Gauge '03 Springfield.
Why waste time with shooter .25. He makes things up and ignores what doesn't suit him. Then he jumps all over to some different idea then makes wild accusations then dieappears when confronted.
He is not worth repeating the same facts over and over.
I disagree that he, or anybody else, is not worth making an effort to convince him of the truth. Now, I'm sure by now few who read this really grasp what has been said here, and that is: There are TWO TIMES in the Zapruder Film that we see Governor John Connally react in a way that he might have been wounded.
The first time is at Z=224, where his lapel moves outward. This has been interpreted many times as the time the bullet passed through his chest, but in actuality, the only thing that happened was John Connally is raising his arms in reaction to the minor wound he received to his left leg from a bullet fragment. The second time that Connally reacts as if he is shot is at Z=325 (0.7 seconds AFTER JFK is shot in the head). At that time, Connally is driven forward in his seat exactly as he described in the video I posted earlier today.
One of the things I've found in dealing with a few of the better known "JFK" experts is a bias that is almost religious in nature, just like Shooter .25 displays. He doesn't listen at all statements, he just lashes out as if he knows everything with absolute certaintity.
Here's the way I see it: The average person can be shown that John Connally was shot in the back AFTER JFK's fatal head shot and believe it, and know this is SIMPLE, BUT the more someone has been involved in this insanity called the single bullet theory, the more likely they are to just not believe that the solution to this murder is simple, in fact, it's trivial.
JFK was killed by a conspiracy Cooked up by LBJ and Hoover,and of course, with that kind of power, the Warren Commission was nothing more than a rubber stamp.
The zillions of books, TV documentaries etc. are ALL WRONG. The correct shooting scenario in the JFK assassination has NEVER been shown on any documentary or described correctly anywhere else that I'm aware of, Connally was the last one shot, and he was shot in the back 0.7 seconds AFTER JFK's fatal head shot.
It's that simple. Now do you believe it? Remember, if this is correct, the MSM and our government both endorse an incredibly rediculous lie. The EMPEROR's NEW CLOTHES is about as close a parallel as I can imagine, the single bullet theory is that silly.
There you go again shooter.25 making things up.
I've proven you make things up and are not accountable for what you say.
You're a joke.
Lyndon Johnson did it.
Ah, to prove it so the average person, when they hear anything about John Kennedy, they'll think, Johnson did it.
One thing we do know for sure is, that the MSM is not going to tell you the truth. It's still too hot to touch.
Here he is with the other shooter:
Good work. That's some excellent research. Is that orange thing in the barrel of the pistol one of those suction darts?
Actually one of those on found near the grassy knoll. I guess they dropped it. No matter the first one worked anyway.
Correction.
One of those "was found" on the grassy knoll.
The reason I think Johnson had Kennedy killed is because he was the only one to gain any thing from Kennedy's death, except revenge. I think the Mafia actually set it up and did it with Johnson blessing and maybe his help. If you read the biographies of Johnson you see how driven he was. He was VP, so close, but still so far away. The ONLY way he was ever going to be president is if Kennedy died. Johnson was an S.O.B.
Timetravlers. I should have guessed. That explains the cloaking device on the knoll. It makes more sense than a fragment which can magically change three or four directions.
The Civil War Union cavalry enlisted man is holding an 1863 Sharps carbine. It used a .54 caliber bullet with paper cartridge.
Thanks for the info. I googled it and got a nice history lesson.
The reason I think Johnson had Kennedy killed is because he was the only one to gain any thing from Kennedy's death, except revenge
You apparently did not see "THE GUILTY MEN" aired on the (non)History Channel in 2003. The show revealed the shady past of LBJ from winning his first election by ballet stuffing to killing a government employee (Henry Marshall, who wouldn't take a bribe) plus he was implicated in killing even his sister! Johnson was going to jail for murder and lesser crimes such as getting money from Bobby Baker, who collected "payments" and passed them to LBJ.
The show was aired only two days and then pulled when legal action was threatened, real heroes were involved such as Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Bill Moyers...... The show's only HARD EVIDENCE was a fingerprint found in the shooter's nest at the TSBD which belonged to Mac Wallace, a killer associated with LBJ. The fingerprint was matched to Mac Wallace by an expert who said "no doubt." The FBI later said verbally, no match. Read about the GUILTY MEN below:
The ninth segment, titled "The Guilty Men", directly implicated Lyndon B. Johnson. Within days, Johnson's widow, Lady Bird Johnson, more of his surviving associates, ex-President Jimmy Carter, and the lone, living Warren Commission commissioner and ex-President Gerald R. Ford immediately complained to the History Channel. They subsequently threatened legal action against Arts & Entertainment Company, owner of the History Channel. "The Guilty Men" segment was completely withdrawn by the History Channel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Killed_Kennedy
Another note about the show:
Character Assassination
Why did the History Channel accuse LBJ of JFK's murder?
Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:01 a.m. EST
Can there be a way to prepare one's mind for the spectacle now before us, in which the History Channel explains its worthy reasons for airing a film back in November--part of the 40th anniversary of JFK's assassination--identifying Lyndon B. Johnson as the criminal responsible for John Kennedy's murder? We can but try.....
History Channel apologizes The History Channel has apologized to Lady Bird Johnson and her family for last year's documentary that implicated President Lyndon Johnson in the 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy. "Our commitment is to historical accuracy, and in this case, we regrettably did not live up to our standards," History Channel chief Dan Davids wrote. The Guilty Men: An Historical Review will air at 8 p.m. ET/PT Wednesday. Three historians will review the original Guilty Men and present their findings. In a statement, the History Channel said the panel has agreed that any implication that Johnson was involved in the assassination is "entirely unfounded." Said former Johnson aide Tom Johnson, speaking for the family: "As we who saw the original show knew at the time of its airing in November 2003, the program and the reprehensible allegations were categorically false. While we know that the apology and the second broadcast may not erase completely the false accusations made by the original show, we believe that future generations will know that all of us were determined to set the record straight and to clear President Johnson's name from irresponsible and completely unfounded charges."
http://www.usatoday.com/life/columnist/mediamix/2004-04-04-media-mix_x.htm
This broadcast scared some of the survivors to this lie. But IF you stop and think about this,there's only one explanation why all the lies are out there. Think of all the hundreds of people who did step forward and said, "Wait, I saw (X, Y or Z) but it makes no difference, it's their word against the integrity of the US Government. "They" can't admit that the Vice-President KILLED JFK in an elaborate scheme that fell apart many times but is supported to this day by the main stream media. It's been shown many times to any reasonable person that LBJ is the only explanation that fits but MSM still plays the game like we'll never know.
I simply erased the sarcastic bullet trail that you had marked and I connected the two wounds in JFK's back to the neck wound, and guess what, the bullet angle down NEVER comes near Connally's leg, and you do not show the entry wound in the back below the shoulder as FBI agent O'Neal said in his notes.
Remember, I contend IF Connally was shot in the back at Z=325, then that alone is reasonable proof that the Warren Commission investigation was corrupt.
When I presented this scenario to Dr. Wecht last year, I first got his attention when I explained the 25 degree down angle that was required for one bullet to account for all of John Connally's wounds. This impossible down angle was the basis for Dr. Wecht to be the ONLY discenting member of the HSCA. The other doctors and lawyers on the committee aparently never mastered geometry. The rather steep angle down is required to get a bullet fragment into Connally's left leg. As you know, the wound to his left leg was a bullet fragment, not a bullet. No one can explain the mass deficit for the fragment in Connally's left leg from CE399, can you?
Of course, FBI agent O'Neal's comments in his notes and in his interview on FOX a couple of years ago said that Dr. Hummes said during the autopsy, NO POINT OF EXIT.
<"FBI agent on back wound, Hummes said NO POINT OF EXIT">
OF course, Hummes himself finding NO POINT OF EXIT by probing the back wound with his finger and with a surgical instrument proves the Warren Commission scenario of a single bullet is WRONG.
AS I pointed out before, either all of these UNRELIABLE witnesses got it wrong and embarrassed themselves by contradicting the Warren Commission on National TV
OR
We had a fraudulant investigation called the Warren Commission fed rediculous evidence by Hoover and backed by the most CORRUPT President in US history, Lyndon B. Johnson.
That was a joke rework of some nutcases explanation of the third bullet. It's so out of scale it's pathetic.
The jumpseat Connelly was sitting on was eight inches lower than Kennedy's seat. Kennedy also wasn't sitting leaning back as this pathetic excuse tried to show. The Dallas Book Depository also wasn't 60 feet higher than the limo at the third shot. The sixth floor is a great deal higher than the nutcase tried to claim. The nut also decided to omit the incine of the street. That changes the angle drastically.
The joke I was showing was how stupid you could be to think Connelly could be shot in the thigh without getting shot in the back. Do you want to try to explain that bullet path?
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