Russia’s Great Su-35 Fighter Nightmare: Its Top Fighter Keeps Getting Shot Down

National Security Journal ^ | 7/24/2025 | Brent M. Eastwood

[catnipman]

“It’s such a waste of time and resources. Russia could be a very successful modern industrial and tech state. And work with Western Europe to remove the Islamic menace.”

that’s true too, but under the leadership of Putin, Russia is regressing industrially and scientifically into a 3rd world country with nukes ...

[bray]

Communism never succeeds.

[pfflier]

Russia losing one of their best to U.S. leftovers

The F-16 is still a very capable aerial combat fighter. It has surprised everying with it's maneuverability and lethality even when compared to the expensive 5th gens.

If it can see you it can kill you and still get away for another day.

[Brian Griffin]

“so then what? Flinging the cheap, unlimited explosives at enemies with trebuchets?”

Artillery pieces and mortars!

A million tons of high explosives annually is 50 Hiroshima bombs worth of explosive force, annually.

No Ukrainian front line is going to hold against that level of explosive force.

[Brian Griffin]

“The F-16 is still a very capable aerial combat fighter.”

It’s the missiles that matter.

F-5s can carry missiles.

[pfflier]

It’s the missiles that matter.

AIM 9s are absolute wonder weapons. Someone has got to point 'em in their lethal envelope. The F-16 is great at that.

[NorseViking]

There is not a debate. Iran shot down scores of drones, no manned aircraft was ever spotted. Scores of drop tanks emerged on the Caspian coast indeed. Do the math.

[Stingray51]

Ok!

[Svartalfiar]

Visual or auditory sighting is almost useless as a defense... You’ll be blown up miles before you can see or hear the aircraft. Most missiles don’t even have visual target tracking.

And most of those sighting situations are very situational, unlikely, not even practical (f22 caught because it blocked the view of a firework? Seriously?) and at best miiight let someone on the ground know there’s something in the air. Maybe unfriendly. Maybe not. Was it a bird? Either way, still not enough to get air defenses locked on and a successful kill.

Stealth aircraft are already easily detectable using low-frequency radars. When we fly them, Russia/China/whoever will know they’re in the air and about where. But that’s not enough to defend against them.

[Svartalfiar]

A phased array system can put on a truck. A very thick concrete shelter can protect it most of the time. At somewhat random times the truck can drive out and let the system have a peek before it gets driven under cover again.

So it's like the patriot or SA systems? Those take several minutes to set up or pack up, need to be so close to the command center and launchers... There aren't that many random positions you can go. And how many times per day do you expect a crew to reset? Every day, nonstop, months on end? And how are you maintaining coverage during all this downtime? And if you're broadcasting at any point, we'll know where you are and find you, especially if you're coming from a corridor we already cleared..

[Svartalfiar]

What I am talking about is an absence of evidence as to how our manned aircraft would do against a sophisticated network such as Russian air defenses in the Ukraine vicinity or against China’s in a future conflict. Perhaps US aircraft would dominate these systems but we the people who pay for all this stuff cannot really know for sure.

The S-3/4/500 system is less capable than the Patriot/Thaad or Aegis systems, and our SEAD capability is much better. Russia's system is too widespread and it's not very likely with their maintenance and graft that the systems are properly networked. China is hugely derivative, likely a bit more capable than Russia but I doubt much more. Given the appearances of their "stealth" jets, they certainly haven't been able to test their radar systems, so they don't know how they'd do, either!