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To: alexander_busek; Saintgermain

Consistent application of principles - something that China, Russia and the USA’s neocons and democrats are habitually incapable of doing - answers your questions.

First, let’s consider the maps from before the formation of the UN Charter principles. They are lessons on mistakes made in the past that we should avoid repeating, not valid templates for the future... Unless you’re Vladimir Putin.

The principles of national sovereignty, territorial integrity, and the right of all charter nations to rule themselves based on what their own people want, should be sacrosanct.

Those rules were established in an attempt to end centuries of bloodshed in the name of Lebensraum; control over oil, gas, grain and other commodities; or forced conversions of religion; or just to exterminate a population that’s in the way.

The only wars on the continent of Europe in the last 60 years have been abject violations of those agreed principles. So was Argentina’s invasion of the Falklands. So was Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait. So were a multitude of British, Soviet, Chinese and American operations from the late 20th century onward.

In 1975 most of the countries in Europe, with Canada and the Soviet Union, agreed, in Finland, to end those practices on the European continent. The reaffirmation of UN Charter principles within the Helsinki agreement is totally incompatible with ALL attempts by Russia to interfere in the sovereignty and territorial integrity and self defence of the ex Soviet republics and former Warsaw Pact.

Our wrongdoing isn’t with our current actions in Ukraine; it’s with the EU and EU-NATO and the USA did nothing from 1994 to 2014 while Russia drove coach and horses through the principles it had even reaffirmed in the Belovezha Accords and Budapest Memorandum.

Minsk agreements combined with those principles meant Wagner and the DPR were Russian actors on Ukrainian soil, in violation of the peace plan. Russia didn’t just refuse to pull them out, it denied they were there at the behest of Moscow. That is the only reason Minsk became untenable. Ukraine got a ceasefire. Ukraine got Azov to stand down. Ukraine amended its constitution. Russia had to reciprocate to get more of Minsk delivered, and Russia point blank refused to do its part.

This is the kind of thing that creates wars. Because European nations have alliances based on mutual respect of the UN and NATO and Helsinki and Belovezha and Budapest principles. Russia cannot violate those principles repeatedly and not expect a counter reaction.

Lessons from the cascade that turned the assassination of one man into World War One, and turned the joint invasion of Poland by the Soviets and Nazis into World War 2, cannot and must not be ignored.

Russia thinks it can do what it likes with impunity because it’s got nukes. Wrong! Russian armor and boots in other countries as a result of Russian invasion can rightly be wiped out by that country and its allies. Self defence is the only counterweight to the anti invasion principles. If you’re the invader, your forces are fair game.

All Russia has to do to save their lives is admit their presence in Ukraine is in flagrant violation of UN+Helsinki+Belovezha+Budapest+Minsk principles AND binding treaties, their presence is fuelling the war AND dragging other countries into the conflict... and that conflict Will Not End until Russia brings them home.

America should understand that THIS principle, as well as the other principles against hostile invasion, are what reinforce the wisdom of the Monroe Doctrine. Don’t get involved in proxy wars (ie get out of NATO and other mutual defence agreements); don’t invade other countries.

It really is that simple. If you don’t stick to the principles, you cannot avoid being either the instigator of an invasion or a treaty trapped party to the defence of an invaded country.


49 posted on 03/24/2023 2:09:30 AM PDT by MalPearce ("You see, but you do not observe". https://www.thefabulous.co/s/2uHEJdj)
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To: MalPearce

First of all thank you for your insightful reply. I am probably not enough up to on the info and if you could shed some additional light on the subject I will appreciate it. What about Russia’s claim about the interference by the US in he elections in 2014? Also about the continuous harassments of the ethnic Russian population in the eastern part of Ukraine? What about the encroachment of NATO along with the US along its border, with the possibility of installation of aggressive weapons, very similar if Russia would come to an arrangement with Mexico and do the same, would the US tolerate it?


61 posted on 03/24/2023 9:13:07 AM PDT by Saintgermain
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To: MalPearce

“All Russia has to do to save their lives is admit their presence in Ukraine is in flagrant violation of UN+Helsinki+Belovezha+Budapest+Minsk principles AND binding treaties, their presence is fuelling the war AND dragging other countries into the conflict... and that conflict Will Not End until Russia brings them home.

[SNIP]

It really is that simple. If you don’t stick to the principles, you cannot avoid being either the instigator of an invasion or a treaty trapped party to the defence of an invaded country.”

ONCE AGAIN EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT COMMENT!
Thank you


65 posted on 03/24/2023 9:18:45 AM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com (Pray for God's intervention to stop Putin's invasion)
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