Does The ATF Have a List of Guns that You Own?

Federal law and ATF regulations require a licensed firearms dealer (an FFL holder) to record the date a firearm was received, the date of receipt, and the name and address or the name and license number (FFL number) of the person (or corporation) from whom the firearm was received. The dealer must also record the name of the manufacturer and importer (if any) and the model, serial number, type and caliber or gauge.

Then, when a firearm is disposed of, for any reason, a dealer is required to record the disposition: showing the date of sale or other disposition– gift, loan or testing (anytime a gun leaves the licensed premises it must be logged out of the bound book) and the name and address or the name and license number (FFL number if a dealer) of the person (or corporation) to whom the firearm was transferred. If to a non-FFL holder, there will also be a completed form 4473 in the dealer’s records and the information will include the person’s full legal name and address, NICS approval code and make, model and caliber.

These requirements have been in place since at least 1968 and dealers must make their records available for ATF inspection during business hours — and no warrant is required. The law prohibits ATF from making complete copies of dealer’s records which could be used to create a registry of guns and gun owners.

Now that I’ve explained the law, I want to explain how computer technology is causing a problem for gun buyers.

While attending the SHOT Show, I learned about a software package that makes dealer record keeping easier.

The software allows dealers to keep an electronic bound book. It is an online package and the dealer pays a monthly fee based upon the number of transactions. When the software is being used, the screen resembles a bound book. The software has spell check and prevents misspelling of names such as Glock (Gloc) or SCCY (SKKY). And because all of the information is typed on a screen, it makes it easy for those who have poor quality handwriting to keep legible records that can then be made into a PDF which, when printed, looks like a traditional printed “bound book.”

When speaking with the software vendors, I specifically asked how does ATF conduct compliance inspections of dealers who are using this software package. I was given a demonstration and shown how the software exports the data (guns and gun buyers names and addresses) into either a PDF that resembles an old-fashioned bound book or a Comma Separated Values (CSV) file that can be opened in Microsoft Excel.

I was told that this “feature” makes a compliance check easy because the dealer simply exports the CSV file to a thumb drive and the ATF leaves with the data. I was told that ATF analyzes the data away from the FFL’s premises. If there are any discrepancies or problems the gun dealer is notified and usually given an opportunity to correct the errors.

When dealing with compliance with government rules, many people do what is easy. That’s why so many file their US form 1040 tax return electronically, even though experts claim that increases the likelihood of an audit. I wasn’t surprised when the software vendor told me how well-received their application has been. Especially since it makes things easy, and ATF is not on dealer’s premises for more than a few minutes.

I accept that it is bad for business to have ATF personnel hanging around. This scheme is a danger, and allows ATF to easily create a gun registry — in violation of 18 USC 926 (a)(3). We have no way to know if a registry is actually being created and if the ATF is or is not destroying these records at the conclusion of the compliance check. One might argue they’re not, because GOA has received reports of ATF demanding copies of entire (paper) bound books. That is bad, but at least with paper, the data still needs to be converted to an electronic format to be of any real use. However, a CSV file that can be searched in MS Excel is of significant value to a government that wishes to track gun owners.

How do you feel about your personal information — linked to guns you own, by make, model and serial number — being put into the ATF’s hands? If you’re like me, you don’t like it, and you know that registration can and has led to confiscation. Not only in far away foreign lands but in US states like New York.

Ask. That’s right, ask your dealer how he keeps his or her records. Are they compiled in an old-fashioned bound book, or are they using one of these twenty-first century software packages?

GOA’s advice is to find a small, preferably home-based FFL — one who still keeps paper records — and transact exclusively with that FFL dealer. Take affirmative steps to protect yourself.

“Even in France with the Yellow Vest protests. Are the cops completely blin to what is happening to their country.”

Back when employees were all trained to use the fire extinguisher there was a fire in my lab. It started small with several men present and an extinguisher on the wall nearby. They all ran out of the room. I asked why none of them had used the extinguisher. The answer? Variations of...”Uhm, nobody told me to.” Now, I reiterate, we had all been trained.

My conclusion is that most people are beta types. They wait for leadership. And, a further problem, cops have pensions to protect. Getting fired will lead to pension loss and probably bleak employment possibilities in the future. Not to mention the wife saying, “You did what?! Are you an idiot?!” People’s motivations are complex and personal.

To be a revolutionary you either have to be extremely patriotic, like the founding fathers, many of whom lost everything. Or, you have to have nothing and anything you do is likely to improve your lot. Cops have just enough invested in the way things are that they can accept a few idiotic government edicts. And, not pissing off the wife is a prime motivator. I have known several men who lost their job and ended up divorced as a result.

Variations of...”Uhm, nobody told me to.” Now, I reiterate, we had all been trained......That is awesome.

But you make some great points. I used to be in law enforcement and you’re 100% right. Cops, no matter how much they bitch to everyone about the money they make, for the most part can make a very good living. Very good in some cases. With the right amount of overtime or authorized off-duty work, I know many that are making 6-figures. Big houses and brand new cars every few years. So, to your point, when the wife does say...WTF?...there’s a reason for it.

Granted, in some parts of the country, there are some that are making peanuts, but even in some of those places they’re doing ok.

Now some on here will automatically jump on me for “you don’t know what it’s like”. I do, although things have changed dramatically from when I was doing it, after leaving the job in 2007.

As for the revolutionary, again, you’re correct. But, I’d also throw in there, someone that is kind of above it all, so to speak. Someone that is elevated enough that they’re kind of untouchable, in a way. Someone that can have a rally where thousands show up the day before, just for a chance to get into the venue to see that person.

At the end of the day, I think what stops almost all of this Harris/CornPop nonsense(and to think we’re only a few months in) is the Red States standing ‘shoulder to shoulder’ as one and saying.....NOPE, not gonna happen. The Red States have all the oil, farms, food, guys with guns, etc etc etc. They have their own ports, refineries and pipelines. They don’t need to be afraid of Uncle Sam. In fact it’s the other way around. Uncle Sam threatens to take away money. Ok. We’ll stop sending it. And if the IRS, should happen to come calling, then our sheriffs will promptly escort them out of the county.

Just by typing that phrase you have confirmed to an AI program that you are indeed a gun owner. The rest is academic... they don’t even need a database... they can mine your meta data... ever taken a picture holding your gun? bought ammo on a credit card? brought your cell phone to the gun range? Ordered gun cleaner from Brownell’s? Googled long range optics? It is my belief that we are so far past them even needing a database.

If you have paid for anything with a debit or credit card, there is an electronic record of what you bought. With some good algorithms, they know what you have better than you do .

That’s a great point. The ATF don’t need to actually know what guns you have if it gets to the point of bans and confiscations. They merely know that you may have owned one at some point and there are a threat. No need for a warrant to know about purchasesat individual FFL’s, because your credit card data is easier to search.

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