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To: HandyDandy
1. “We know the North had no concern for the slaves......” a) Who is “we”? b) Define “the North”. c)Please clarify, “no concern for the slaves.”

Powers that be in the North. You know, the Robber Barons, the Corrupt Politicians, the Tax and Spend Liberals, and most of the general public.

2. “........because the Northern Congress...”. Say what? It was a Joint Resolution passed by both houses of Congress.

The seven Southern states that made up the original Confederacy had already seceded and withdrew their representatives. What was left was mostly Northern States, with Corwin assuring Ohio, and Seward assuring New York would pass the amendment.

When I say "Northern Congress", I mean what was left of Congress after the original seven confederate states had withdrawn. It was a North heavy Congress that passed that amendment.

3. “.......and with Lincoln’s urging,....” Surely you meant to say Buchanan.

Seward was Lincoln's front man on passage in the Senate. I've read articles that indicate Lincoln D@mn near wrote the amendment himself, and then used proxies to shift the "credit" onto other people. In any case, Lincoln did urge it's passage in his first inaugural address, and he took the additional step of writing letters to all the governors informing them of it's passage through the Congress.

4. “......passed the Corwin Amendment.” Of course no such thing ever happened.

It most certainly did pass the Congress, with mostly Northern State votes. The word "passed" is still correct in that context, and that is clearly the intended context because we all know it did not "pass" all the states.

Of course, you and I both know that the “proposed amendment” did not have as its “intent” to preserve slavery for the whole United States.

What does "intent" have to do with the consequences of what would actually happen if that amendment passed? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. "Intent" means nothing. Consequences mean everything, and the consequence of what they had done would have been to extend legal slavery far into the future.

Yes, their "intent" was to keep the Southern states in the Union, but their means of attempting it was to create a condition of perpetual legal slavery.

The point here is that they cared more about keeping control of the Southern states than they did about the slaves.

So, we get to the end of your spiel, and not one lie have you found in what I said. This validates my point that you are seeing something that wasn't there.

You couldn't even find a lie with all your parsing.

111 posted on 12/12/2019 4:06:04 PM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no oither sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp

The Corwin amendment was a last ditch effort by the north to keep the southern states in the Union. In fact President Buchanan specifically asked Congress to come up with laws to placate the south about slavery.

“While still in office until Lincoln’s inauguration, Democratic President James Buchanan declared secession to be a constitutional crisis and asked Congress to come up with a way to reassure the southern states that the incoming Republican administration under Lincoln would not outlaw slavery.

Specifically, Buchanan asked Congress for an “explanatory amendment” to the Constitution that would clearly confirm the right of the states to allow slavery. A three-member committee of the House of Representatives headed by Rep. Thomas Corwin of Ohio got to work on the task.”

And here is what President Lincoln said about the amendment in his first inaugural address;
“I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution—which amendment, however, I have not seen—has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service ... holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.”

Certainly not a ringing endorsement. He then sent it off to the states for ratification without any comment.

Contrast those actions to the ones he took to get the other 13th Amendment passed and ratified. He went so far as to sign that one, which is not required by the constitution.


113 posted on 12/12/2019 4:21:36 PM PST by OIFVeteran
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To: DiogenesLamp
DL “Seward was Lincoln's front man on passage in the Senate. I've read articles that indicate Lincoln D@mn near wrote the amendment himself, and then used proxies to shift the "credit" onto other people. In any case, Lincoln did urge it's(sic) passage in his first inaugural address, and he took the additional step of writing letters to all the governors informing them of it's(sic) passage through the Congress.“

I would ask for a citation of the articles you have read that “indicate Lincoln D@mn near wrote the amendment himself and then used proxies to shift the “credit” onto other people.” But I would rather not know where your dirt comes from. Back at that time, as you will recall, Seward held the common misunderstanding that Lincoln was a ‘country bumpkin’. Later, Seward would say of Lincoln that, “He is the best among us”. As far as Lincoln “urging its passage” in his First Inaugural, he merely stated that he had no objection to it. You keep repeating that the Corwin Amendment passed, as if to imply it became an Amendment to the United States Constitution. “We” know, though, that in fact it was never ratified by more than two or three States and therefore never became an Amendment to the Constitution. It would be a good refresher for you to re-read Lincoln’s House Divided Speech. There he plainly and matter-of-factly lays out the entire scores of years of the plans of the Slave Powers to push and expand Slavery come hell or high water. In it he names names, in particular he names Taney, Douglas, Davis and possibly A,Stephens. Even you must understand that the Dred Scot decision put the issue of Slavery into the hands of the Federal Government to protect and defend and expand forever. (Speaking of States Rights) That decision also reversed one of our founding principles, that “all men are created equal”. The Corwin Amendment was a last ditch effort to put the issue of Slavery back into the hands of each individual State.
At that time, Lincoln’s main concern was to stop any expansion of Slavery. Lincoln hated Slavery. Even despite what his own personal views of those who were there and then enslaved, Lincoln hated Slavery. That is what makes him great. And the fact that he died defending the U.S.Constitution. I also believe that Trump is the best thing to happen to this Country since Lincoln.

115 posted on 12/12/2019 8:44:37 PM PST by HandyDandy (All right then I will go to hell. Huckleberry Finn)
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