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To: x
Мне надо было попробовать. Вы, кажется, не понимаете ни английский ни какой-либо другой язык.

More like I don't share your biases.

And maybe there was even some justification: people all over the country had no love for monopolists and plutocrats, and postbellum Southerners suffered from the war their leaders had started years before they were born.

You keep forgetting that these people were well aware of who's armies invaded who's states.

But did that resentment justify imposing the income tax on the country, something that would produce massive changes in the way we are governed?

I doubt many people could see what it would turn into. Did anyone who voted for the Civil Rights act of 1964 ever foresee it would eventually be used to force Christians to bake Gay Wedding cakes?

But you are always complaining about the slightest reduction in the antebellum South's cotton profits.

You are personalizing it. I'm not complaining, i'm pointing out how they likely saw things. Understanding the profit motive of man, I can see how they looked at things.

Every penny or dollar that didn't go into the cotton growers pockets is a theft in your eyes.

Forcing people to pay you is a form of theft. Whether you got the money honestly or not (as in slave labor) makes no difference to a person, it is the taking of it away without consent that will cause them to resent it.

The profits you cherish went into the pockets of the slave owning planters.

Here you go again, trying to make it about me instead of about human nature and the laws of that era.

Slave labor was largely responsible for that money.

Which didn't much bother anyone involved in the collecting of the profits from it, and which the US government condoned so long as they controlled that money stream.

So in effect, you're in favor of slave owners and slavery. When somebody points that out to you deny it, but that's not credible.

Still trying to make it about me. I keep pointing out that Slavery has not got a D@mn thing to do with it, and had the South remained in the US, Slavery would have continued till at least the 1900s.

There is a reason why people on your side always try to make slavery the issue instead of what was the real issue, it's because the people you champion don't look so good when looked at from the perspective of the war being about Who was going to control and spend the money.

When looked at objectively, it becomes apparent that the fight was over controlling the European trade and the Capital produced by it. "Slavery" was just an ad hoc excuse for doing what they did to protect their profits and industries.

So far as I'm concerned, the New York Plutocrats profiting from Slavery were just as bad as the Southern Aristocrats who actually worked them. The only difference is that the New York Plutocrats turned out to be much more dangerous, and have continued running things to this very day, though there power has been shaken up lately.

288 posted on 02/13/2018 2:26:09 PM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp; BroJoeK
When looked at objectively, it becomes apparent that the fight was over controlling the European trade and the Capital produced by it.

You mean: when looked at through your biases. You simply exclude and throw away all the non-materialistic reasons why Northerners would fight.

There is a reason why people on your side always try to make slavery the issue instead of what was the real issue, it's because the people you champion don't look so good when looked at from the perspective of the war being about Who was going to control and spend the money.

That wasn't what the war was about. I don't know who you think I "champion," but taking the motives of those who fought for the union into account, those who fought don't look so bad. They brought down an oppressive system, whether they originally intended to do so or not.

So far as I'm concerned, the New York Plutocrats profiting from Slavery were just as bad as the Southern Aristocrats who actually worked them. The only difference is that the New York Plutocrats turned out to be much more dangerous, and have continued running things to this very day, though there power has been shaken up lately.

Circulation of elites. Look it up. The Vanderbilts and Astors aren't running things anymore. And the people who are running things don't look at the world the way Commodore Cornelius or fur trader John Jacob did.

New York wasn't destroyed and economic activity wasn't completely dispersed, but the world has changed and is changing. This undying resentment you have against New York is something you'll have to work through somehow.

293 posted on 02/13/2018 2:53:58 PM PST by x
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