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To: DiogenesLamp
I wouldn't want to argue from your position either. It cannot be made to square with the demonstrable facts.

Well yeah, actually it can. Begin by recognizing that the South Carolina authorities seized Fort Moultrie, Castle Pinkney, the Charleston customs house, and all the other federal property they could get their hands without any negotiation or payment. The first three dates mentioned by PeaRidge were after the fact. The letter to Lincoln contained no offer to pay for anything.

So let's take that forward to today. If California announced their secession and seized all the military bases, all the arms, and all the federal property in the state without negotiation and without payment, and then sent a delegation to Washington saying that they wanted D.C. to recognize the legitimacy of their secession, and once D.C. did then they would be open to discussing matters of interest to them, then would you accept that in the hopes that maybe they include negotiating payment for the property they seized and settlement of debt in that list of "all matters and subjects interesting" to them?

444 posted on 12/05/2016 8:47:38 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
Begin by recognizing that the South Carolina authorities seized Fort Moultrie

Fort Moultrie was abandoned by Major Anderson, it's cannon's spiked and their carriages set on fire. The Southern people surrounding the fort had believed that the Fort would be turned over to their officials in due course, and regarded the destruction of the cannons as a belligerent act which indicated to them that they were to be regarded as an enemy by the Federal authorities.

It was the first indication to them that they would be regarded in a hostile manner.

Also, you may not realize that the granting of Ft. Sumter to the Federal Government was conditional, and that the Federal Government defaulted on the conditions decades before the Civil War ever started.

That, if the United States shall not, within three years from the passing of this act, and notification thereof by the governor of this State to the Executive of the United States, repair the fortifications now existing thereon, or build such other forts or fortifications as may be deemed most expedient by the Executive of the United States on the same, and keep a garrison or garrisons therein, in such case this grant or cession shall be void and of no effect.

It wasn't completed in the three year time limit (it wasn't even completed by 1861) and it wasn't garrisoned until Anderson moved into it.

The legal point here is that the US Government was in default violation of the conditions which would have allowed them ownership of the property.

451 posted on 12/05/2016 9:42:06 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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