Doctrinaire Conservatives Have Made the Word Conservative Powerless

Politics as Unusual ^ | 3-18-2016 | Otto Lamp

[DesertRhino]

“Real conservatives, like Milton Friedman, argue that you cannot have both open borders AND a large welfare state”

Friedman isn’t a conservative. He has no record of supporting the second amendment. I can guess his gay marriage take. And open borders is never conservative, no matter what the qualifier.
Friedman is simply an economic libertarian, nothing more.

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

“I don’t think there is such a thing as a “true” anything in Washington.”

Oh, I would say there are at least 400 absolute true grifters sitting in Congress.

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

One of the mysteries of the 2016 election cycle is why so many conservatives are rejecting the true conservative in the race and going with a loud mouthed New Yorker.

Seriously?? That's a "mystery?"

Cruz's problem is obvious - he's not the most personal/likeable guy, and a lot of folks think he has not chance of winning. And I say that as a guy who supports Cruz over Trump. Cruz's biggest issue is electability.

[Brookhaven]

It’s apparently a mystery to everyone but Trump’s supporters.

[Night Hides Not]

Given the results so far, it's hard to argue against your points.

After Bush 43, the average voter turned their backs on candidates from Texas.

Given the performance, or lack thereof, of the Texas Congressional delegation (except for Cruz, Gohmer, and a few others), I can't say I blame 'em. They fell in line with Boehner, and now Ryan.

Building the wall (immigration) is a very big issue in Texas, and all we've seen is hand wringing.

They've all raised a lot of money, and spend it on TV ads where they break out their Stetsons and boots, and tell everybody how they embody "Texas conservative values." My a$$!!!

[Ceebass]

Absent Trump, people would see Cruz and a transformational candidate, and the best to come along in a long, long time.

But nobody sees much of anything else with Donald Trump in the room. ////

Reagan talked about pale pastels vs bold colors.

Compared to Trump, Cruz looks timid. Yes, he defied the GOP leadership, but he always operates under the construct of political correctness. Trump blows PC away and most of us like that.

PC was invented by the left to control the system. If you follow PC you are controlled by the left, whether you realize it or not.

Cruz might be able to quote obscure constitutional law, but he couldn’t see what was right in his face. That people hate PC in droves as was indicated by the Chic Filet debacle and other examples.

From the beginning Cruz has run a careful campaign and still can’t see what’s in front of his face.

[T-Bird45]

Talking classism is merely playing into the hands of the socialists while using the language of Marx. Talk instead about economic growth in a real way through free enterprise and a proper understanding of how wealth is increased, i.e. see Adam Smith. The middle class will grow naturally from that approach rather than trying to turn them into another group that has to be paid off to get votes.

[jimbo807]

The Bushes ruined Reagan conservatism. Their warmongering neocon ways have finally failed. The joy of watching Jeb! go down in flames was great and good.

Welcome to the new and improved nationalist populist Republican party led by Donald J Trump. Get on board or start your own party. Good luck.

[Theo]

“... Daddy claiming he is the 2nd coming ...”

What a ridiculous accusation. I know that anti-conservative sites are promoting that lie, but that’s exactly what it is: an unsubstantiated lie.

I’ve watched the video of Ted Cruz’s dad preaching, twice. And nowhere does he say or even imply such a thing.

[Brookhaven]

So, you are one of the doctrinaire conservatives.

* US GDP as increased 150% since 1979 (in real dollars)
* The middle class has shrunk 10%

Those are two hard numbers that fly in the face of your theory.

“Talk instead about economic growth in a real way through free enterprise and a proper understanding of how wealth is increased...The middle class will grow naturally from that approach...”

Except it hasn’t. A 150% increase wealth (GDP) and the middle class has shrunk.

[T-Bird45]

So, you truly believe that free enterprise is currently practiced in the economy you cited? How’s that wool hat fitting over your eyes? Is your Kool-Aid grape or cherry flavored?

No doctrinaire here. I just object to using the lexicon of those who are clearly opposed to freedom, i.e. Marxists and those who play Marxists, the socialists, in order to have an economic discussion. Stop discussing class because it always sets one group against another when their potential outcomes are the same.

[right way right]

It’s Trumps fault!!!

Wait....no it’s not.

Conservationism was compromised the day G.H. Bush described his “kinder gentler conservatism” and people bought the narrative. It’s been mostly down hill since.

[Brookhaven]

So, you believe true free enterprise can ever be practiced in the real world?

[Jay Thomas]

From the article: “why so many conservatives are rejecting the true conservative in the race and going with a loud mouthed New Yorker”

Can’t these authors at least wait for paragraph two before spouting the venom??

[T-Bird45]

I believe we’ve been closer and that it’s possible to get back there.

[Jay Thomas]

oops, didn’t read the article. Bad knee-jerk, bad knee-jerk!

[RainMan]

I see what you are saying ... I believe another part of it is that "conservative" means NOTHING unless it has a pronoun in front of it.

To wit ... if I say I am a FISCAL conservative, then you know that I believe in a market economy, lower taxes, etc.

If you respond back that you are a SOCIAL conservative, you are telling me that you believe in traditional family values, are against abortion, and do not support gay unions.

If our friend Bob says he is a CONSTITUTIONAL conservative, then we know that he believes in States Rights, rejects Sharia law, supports the RKBA,

Notice, none of the definitions overlap!

When a politician like Yeb! says he is a conservative ... we scratch our heads, because he MIGHT mean he is a fiscal conservative ... but we are pretty sure he is not a social conservative nor a constitutional conservative based on his voting records. Likewise, pretty much everyone knows that Ted is a constitutional conservative, and we are pretty sure he is a fiscal conservative, and probably a social conservative as well. Donald, is very much a Fiscal conservative, especially on trade and the economy ... but those who doubt him doubt his commitment to social conservatism and a couple of places in constitutional conservatism give us pause.

There are other types of conservatives as well ... which are a little more obscure in reference. From the 80's you had the HAWKS, who were conservative in regards to the military and military spending ... with an interesting note that the conservative view on military spending was to increase it ... which puts them at odds with a lot of fiscal conservatives ... but the point being that a strong military deters enemies and ultimately costs you less. You rarely hear about Hawks and Doves any more. Orrin Hatch's conservative cred comes from being a great Hawk. Hawks usually get along well with Constitutional Conservatives since the military is the only spending mandated by the constitution.

The newest type of conservative I will dub the BORDER HAWK, which believes that a strong border reduces crime, prevents terrorism, reduces drugs, lowers government spending (on benefits to illegals) and improves the economy by eliminating job competition by illegals. I think when Donald brought the issue to the fore, a lot of people woke up and realized they were border hawks, which is why they are willing to forgive his weaker cred in the social and constitutional conservative circles.

There are also what I will call JUSTICE conservatives, and these folks believe the police are good, fighting crime is necessary, long prison terms are worth the taxes necessary to pay for them, and the death penalty is a strong deterrent. I believe that the rise of BLM is causing a lot more people to become Justice Conservatives as well. Justice conservatives have a strong affiliation with the constitutional conservatives along the 2nd Amendment and the castle doctrine.

We also have what I will call the Bully Pulpit conservatives, who believe strongly in Freedom of Speech, and they too are under attack from the left this cycle. Just look at Trump's Chicago speech and you can see how some candidates "got it" in regards to the Bully Pulpit, and others did not.

At the end of the day, what I mean when I say "conservative" may NOT mean what you mean when you say "conservative". I think we are each on a scale of each of these types of conservatism, which is why different candidates appealed to us even though we are all "conservative" here.

This election cycle is unique in that we are defining new types of conservatives (Border Hawks) and reinvigorating other types that we seem to have forgotten about (Justice, Bully Pulpit) and they are all "conservatives", but the followers of a Trump may not be all that bought into the dogma of the pure fiscal, social, constitutional or hawk forms of conservatism. This however is why he wins. Our new Border Hawks and Justices and Bully Pulpits are bringing people to us, and taking them always from the Progressives (lets face it ... the opposite of the Conservative is the Progressive). Whether the Socialist Progressive or the Elitist Progressive becomes the nominee of the left, their base is significantly smaller because we have new types of conservatives.

[jaydee770]

[Sam Gamgee]

Totally with the article when it talks about the shrinking middle class. If you take the time to run the data of the percentage of wage to buy a car, an apple, a load of bread, ect, we have fallen behind the mid-70s. We are already in 2016, and people are only starting to figure this out - that American wealth for the middle class peaked in the 70s.

The connection they made with Trump totally lost me.

[Sam Gamgee]

I would argue that there is a sort of tendency for all people to consider themselves more conservative than they really are. That is why the Gallup poll that puts conservatives at 35% is baseless because it asks the question subjectively. I am sure Hilary considers herself a Centrist even though in truth I think she is liberal left. McCain sees himself as a fairly right wing conservative and I see he is a moderate squish.