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To: daniel1212; LeoMcNeil; All
...(infants and slaves had no choice)...the only examples we have of the morally cognizant condition of the baptized is that they were able to choose Christ...

Sorry, my friend, but you may have to rethink your "choice" filter you run everything thru...'Cause it just "ain't" there in the basic Gospels/Scriptures:

The Son's Witness to this:

16 You did NOT choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. (Jesus, John 15:16)

The Father's Witness to this (thru the Son):

"44 “NO ONE can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." (John 6:44)

The Spirit's Witness to this thru Paul:

3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and NO ONE one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” EXCEPT by the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor. 12:3)

Before the downtown LA Church of the Open Door closed down in 1985, its pastors had been J. Vernon McGee (21 years) ensued by Michael Cocoris.

Cocoris wrote in one of his books that he regretted preaching in effect "decision theology" -- essentially of making "choices" or "decisions" for Christ. It's actually quite bad theology. We can talk of "responses" to the Holy Spirit's promptings, but even as Cocoris & others have pointed out...the usually one NT passage cited for such "decision" theology is ripped out of context...

It's the passage from Revelation, "behold I stand at the door and knock"...and talks of opening the door to Christ. What people forget or neglect to apply is that this passage was written to one of the seven CHURCHES in Revelation.

(The other OT verse usually cited is Joshua's "choose this day whom you will serve" is likewise geared toward an "in-house" crowd...the 12 tribes...Joshua 24:1, 15)

The early Reformers realized how necessary it was for Jesus Himself to choose us; for the Father to draw us; and for the Holy Spirit to rebirth us, illuminate our minds (1 Cor. 2:10-12) and call Christ Lord because of one simple reality:

Spiritual death of human beings...

"As for you, you were DEAD in your transgressions and sins...GOD, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions... (Eph. 2:1, 4-5)

This is why we read Christ's words in Luke 9 to "let the dead bury the dead." (IoW, let spiritually dead bury the physically dead)

I'm sorry, my friend, but don't try to build any case on Lazarus resurrection in John 11 based upon either his...
...choice to walk out of the grave cave...
...or his "moral cognizance"...

You need to go back to basics re...
...the need to give GOD in Christ & God the Holy Spirit 100% credit & glory for New Life...
...instead of tipping the glory in favor of men & women having (finally) made the "right choice" based upon their acumen & "moral cognizance"...

It's not only NOT Biblical but places New Life & its power as initiating with man when the Bible CLEARLY teaches it's ALWAYS with God Himself!

44 posted on 02/27/2015 2:20:51 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
...(infants and slaves had no choice)...the only examples we have of the morally cognizant condition of the baptized is that they were able to choose Christ..

Sorry, my friend, but you may have to rethink your "choice" filter you run everything thru...'Cause it just "ain't" there in the basic Gospels/Scriptures: The Son's Witness to this: 16 You did NOT choose me, but I chose you..."44 “NO ONE can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them. NO ONE one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” EXCEPT by the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor. 12:3)

None of those are contrary to what i said, as all these texts refer to souls which could and would make choices, even though it was God who drew them, convicted them, opened their heart, and granted them repentant faith, (Jn. 6:44; 12:32; Acts 11:18; 16:14; Eph. 2:8,9) so that they chose what they otherwise could not and would not do.

But they all made choices, as God requires them to do in order to be saved.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (Acts 17:30)

Meanwhile those who will not make that response, choosing to reject the even light they had and thus their foolish heart was darkened, (Rm. 1:21) will be lost.

You need to go back to basics re... ...the need to give GOD in Christ & God the Holy Spirit 100% credit & glory for New Life... ...instead of tipping the glory in favor of men & women having (finally) made the "right choice" based upon their acumen & "moral cognizance"...

Indeed God gets all the credit, as i just substantiated, and which an RC recently attacked me for, but it remains that man is not saved as a comatose soul, but as one who by the grace of God makes a response that otherwise he could not and would not make, versus having merited it by his response.

And it remains that repentance and faith are requirements for baptism, (Acts 2:38; 8:36,37) which was the point.

Cocoris wrote in one of his books that he regretted preaching in effect "decision theology"

That is not at all what i said or was arguing or contrary to what i was, and coaxing sinner's prayers out of souls is unBiblical and a problem in this superficial society. The work of the evangelist is to be a preaching instrument of conviction so that sinners ask, "What shall we do," and yet a command to do something was given, God enabling and motivating. (Acts 2:37,38)

55 posted on 02/28/2015 9:56:09 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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