Posted on 11/20/2013 6:41:01 PM PST by annalex
Actually, that’s the mummified remains of a 19th century nun dug up by Spanish anticlerical leftists in 1936.
First off, 60,000 isn’t the 200,000 the original post claimed. The usual number is about 30,000, who were allowed to transit through Spain, but weren’t allowed to stay. In addition, there were a few thousand in Hungary who had some Spanish connection and who were protected by the ambassador there.
On the other hand, the Spanish did make lists of their Jews which they turned over to the Germans. They tried to erase the evidence of this later, but evidence was found in the Vatican archives.
Did you live under the man? Are you someone who was living in Spain under Franco?
Franco made a state visit to Berlin. He allowed The “Condor Legion’’ to bomb Guernica. A dictator is a dictator. If you can’t understand I don’t know what to tell bub.
Thank you; I had my suspicions as well, looking at the bare arm bones, but the claim of that being a victim of torture was made by the original poster.
What substantiation do you have?
By the way, desecration of relics is a horrible crime in itself.
What difference my personality, or anyone else’s, should make? Franco’s dictatorship either was a gift to mankind or it wasn’t. I believe it was, and have substantiated my opinion. It is not complicated, I can repeat:
- He kept Spain out of the Second World War;
- He defeated the international leftist cabal on the battlefield;
- He gave the world a lesson of how a nation divided by the marxists should treat the left and should heal afterwards.
Now, who lived under what. You father, you say, “worships” Franco. Would it be a fair assumption that your father is older than you and so has a better vantage point on the history of Spain than you have based on late 20c. American semi-education? I lived under the USSR; I can tell you that anyone who would bomb the crap out of that Evil Empire would be a saint and a hero of the Russian nation. I incidentally, have an older friend; his father, a communist, was fire-squadded by the Nationalists (my friend was sent to the USSR as a child). He, naturally, has his reservations about them. So I am fully aware, from first hand accounts, that for the Spanish Republicans life was no cakewalk. I do, however, believe that the measure of brutality that the Falange applied to the traitors was quite correct.
Wouldn't it, just logically, also matter what the dictator dictates?
State visit to Nazi Germany? The ENTIRE world sent their Olympic teams to parade and salute Hitler.
Franco, while at war, got what he wanted from the Axis.
The Axis, at war, got NOTHING in return from Franco.
Not one Jew was ever turned over to Hitler's clutches; hundreds of thousands were given refuge.
Get over the Lincoln Brigade bull$h1t. Franco won, and freedom was the better for it.
My last was intended as a response to post 64 - apologies.
“Wouldn’t it, just logically, also matter what the dictator dictates?’’ Where you been lately , the Mad Hatters tea party? I take it then you didn’t live in Spain under Franco, correct?
I found the same picture with captions saying as much, then found this: Revolutionary Exhumations in Spain, July 1936
Franco never visited Germany. He and Hitler met at the town on Hendaye, on the French-Spanish border. They met for 12 hours, with HItler pressuring Franco to join the war on his side. Franco wouldn't commit to anything, pleading that he'd just finished his own war, and Hitler later famously said he'd "rather have three or four teeth pulled" than negotiate with Franco again.
But I would submit that there's a difference between meeting with Hitler (or sending an Olympic team) in 1936 and meeting with Hitler in 1940. In 1936, he hadn't repudiated the VersaillesTreaty, annexed Austria, started a war and conquered Poland, Czechoslavakia, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands. In 1940 he had.
But the whole thing was predicated on the British knowing, without a doubt, that any intelligence that came the way of the Spanish would be immediately shared with the Germans. Franco may not have been sending troops (other than the Blue Division), but his intelligence service was working closely with the Germans.
I prefer you answer my question:
“Wouldn’t it, just logically, also matter what the dictator dictates?”
Even more so that I already told you, I haven’t lived under Franco. Nor should it matter; most historians form their opinion based on historical facts rather than on a personal experience.
How about your father, has he lived under Franco?
Thank you very much for the link.
Yes, absolutely. Further, being ethnically Russian, and therefore anti-Soviet, I can only thank Franco for the Blue Division. Generally, Francoism is a part of the Fascist movement, and had a natural sympathy for the Nazis in Germany; I wouldn't want to minimize that. Of course I entirely agree with you that prior to the invasion of Poland and France everyone, not just the fascists had a lot of sympathy for Hitler, and considered his shenanigans in Czechoslovakia and Austria internal German affair.
I think you have that backwards. The Socialists had come to power in Spain and Franco led the uprising against them. It was a civil war that began as a military coup that was led by Franco.
And yet, as long as you did not oppose him, you could live, work, and raise your family without molestation by the State. Very much unlike Communist regimes, which is what Spain would have become if Franco has been any less vigorous in dealing with the Communists.
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