Posted on 09/21/2013 8:28:01 AM PDT by annalex
And by every supporter of humanitarian bombings of Serbia, no-fly-zone insurgencies in Libya, every al Qaeda sympathizer in the Obama administration, every supporter of Kosovo Liberation Army in Clinton/Bush administrations, every open-border ideologue in both parties. The common thread to all is hatred of national governments, domestic economies, and sovereign peoples everywhere.
You're kidding, right? It is Putin's government putting Russian nationalists in jail on article 282, en mass, today.
Yes, slow and like you said, "underground". The difference is, Russia was lost in one violent year, -- at most 5 if you count the Civil War 1918-1922,-- America is struggling for at least half a century, and it is still the best country to be in. Still.
An American reader, however, will note many sad parallels to the state of American psyche in the past few decades, as we see our culture of self-sufficiency and self-government recede — not destroyed by a revolution, but rather allowed to weaken though our own neglect.
***
You are so right. Stalin’s plan is the model for the American progressives. Sad — for both cultures.
But,..but democracy is mob rule.
Here is the relevant Russian law. It seems aimed at extremists of all stripes. Do you have anything to support your contention that the law is being misused?
Article 282. Incitement of National, Racial, or Religious Enmity
1. Actions aimed at the incitement of national, racial, or religious enmity, abasement of human dignity, and also propaganda of the exceptionality, superiority, or inferiority of individuals by reason of their attitude to religion, national, or racial affiliation, if these acts have been committed in public or with the use of mass media, shall be punishable by a fine in the amount of 500 to 800 minimum wages, or in the amount of the wage or salary, or any other income of the convicted person for a period of five to eight months, or by restraint of liberty for a term of up to three years, or by deprivation of liberty for a term of two to four years.
2. The same acts committed: a) with the use of violence or with the threat of its use; b) by a person through his official position; c) by an organized group, shall be punishable by deprivation of liberty for a term of three to five years.
Exactly. All the glory and power those wretched sods are crying about came at the expense of jackbootery that outdid the Nazis and had more than a few nations crossing their fingers that they wouldn’t be another “satellite”.
Mob might want democracy, but it doesn’t need it either, for it will do it no good.
A good representative case of persecutions directed at Russian Nationalists is the history of Русский общенациональный союз (Russian All-National Union; the English version of the Wiki is useless). The party was systematically denied registration and cannot participate in elections; their materials are branded "extremist". The founder, И́горь Артёмов (Igor Artyomov) is indicted on 282 and is in hiding. What is RONS's political position? Actions against abortions, juvenile justice system, sex education in schools, opublic display of homosexuality, highlighting immigrant criminal culture, support for religious education. The organization is now underground.
So..no evidence of mass arrests of Russian “nationalists” using Article 282 as a pretext because Russia is a police state and doesn’t allow the data to be collected. Yet when one looks for evidence you find things like the case of Aleksei Navalny, who was charged with embezzlement (not article 282) and convicted but allowed to run for the mayor of Moscow where he won a sizable portion of the vote. I find it hard to imagine a police state anywhere that would allow such behavior, don’t you?
Navalny is no nationalist. I gave you examples of 282 used against nationalists.
Navalny was kicked out of the Russian United Democratic (Yabloko) party in 2007 for his "nationalist" views, and has been associated with various nationalist organizations (NAROD, DPNI, Great Russia) since then.
You seem to have a unique set of criteria for who is and isn't a Russian nationalist, and it doesn't seem to be shared by too many people...either here or in Russia.
Well, maybe mildly nationalist. Navalny’s defining characteristic is criticism of the culture of corruption. He is seen as playing Putin’s game by the nationalists, who view his phony conviction followed by equally phony mayoral run as Putin putting up a facade of democracy against which Putin and his Chekist trash can win every time.
St. Petersburg police arrested 20 peolpe during nationalist action (Russian)
Nationalists inform of mass arrests during meeting in St. Petersburg (Russian)
The meeting was against "ethnoterror": previously, 4-5 people shot pistols without any provocation yelling Allahu Akbar. A nationalist meeting (or rally) ensued, and the police was arresting participants right at the subway exit, even before they could congregate at the rally. Number of the arrested is variously reported between 20 and 60 people.
Not a police state?
It sounds like the St Petersburg police take their job seriously, and aren’t going to let hooligans of any stripe or color to cause a public safety problem.
Good for them.
-btw are you sure they weren’t just unruly Spartek fans?
Picking people off subway exits before they committed any crime is good police work?
You can dismiss one incident or two. Police harassment of nationalists: refusing their right to assembly, denying political party registration, arresting them for no crime, applying 282 for thought crimes, trumping up criminal cases like against Navalny and Konstantinov is what the political system IS in Russia; and that cannot be dismissed.
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