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To: Jeff Winston
When Trumbull said “subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof,” his intent was SOLELY to exclude INDIANS, IN TRIBES.

We know that's not true by reading the Civil Rights Act of 1866 on which the 14th Amendment was based (according to the Senate Judiciary Committee's own website) which refers to both foreign power AND Indians not taxed:

"Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That all persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States"

The 14th Amendment merely treats Indian and foreign nations the same as in being a power other than the U.S. We know this because instead of stating "not owing allegiance to an Indian Nation," Trumbull INSTEAD said:

"The provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.’ That means ‘subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.’ What do we mean by ‘complete jurisdiction thereof?’ Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means."
Senate Judiciary Committee website that explains the relationship between the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the 14th Amendment:
History of the Senate Committee on the Judiciary
413 posted on 04/04/2013 6:23:59 PM PDT by Rides3
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To: Rides3
When Trumbull said “subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof,” his intent was SOLELY to exclude INDIANS, IN TRIBES.

We know that's not true by reading the Civil Rights Act of 1866 on which the 14th Amendment was based (according to the Senate Judiciary Committee's own website) which refers to both foreign power AND Indians not taxed:

"Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That all persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States"

Okay. I may have overstated the case VERY SLIGHTLY by using the word "SOLELY."

The intent was to exclude:

* Indians IN TRIBES (but NOT Indians who had left their tribes and joined "civilized" American society)

* AND those who had always been HISTORICALLY regarded as being outside of the rule of citizenship, and who therefore had always BEEN excluded: the children of foreign ambassadors, foreign royalty, and invading armies.

It is also clear that Trumbull regarded the children born here of non-citizen parents as US citizens. He understood that to be United States law.

And he never, ever expressed any intention whatsoever to change that law in regard to children born on US soil to non-citizen parents.

In fact, he argued that those born here of "Asiatic" races (who were regarded by some as being "uncivilized") were every bit as much United States citizens as the children of good Germans and Englishmen.

And none of those who argued against blacks or Asians being citizens EVER argued that the children of Germans or Englishmen or Frenchmen or Norwegians were anything other than United States citizens.

The Constitution-twisters have never produced a quote of any of our Congressmen ever making that argument during the course of the Civil Rights Act and the 14th Amendment. It apparently doesn't exist.

But they FREELY reproduce quotes from Trumbull and others that they can twist to make their case, all the while ABSOLUTELY IGNORING the quotes where Trumbull and others make clear that they regarded the children born here of European non-citizen parents to be United States citizens.

That being the case, it is clear what our Congressmen understood the law to be.

They understood that there was no parental citizenship requirement for children born here to be US citizens.

419 posted on 04/04/2013 7:17:49 PM PDT by Jeff Winston
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