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To: Viennacon

A “libertarian” is not someone who is fiscally conservative and socially liberal. That is a “Rockefeller Republican”, not a “libertarian.”

That said, there is social libertarianism, and fiscal libertarianism. Just like there is social conservatism, and fiscal conservatism, and there is social liberalism, and fiscal liberalism.

I would add, there is also the concept of social libertinism, which is not the same thing as social libertarianism.

Social libertarianism is not the same thing as social liberalism.

Social liberalism is based on the culture of victimhood. Social libertarianism is based on the culture of the individual.

Affirmative action, quotas, welfare, etc., these are the tools of the social liberals. Social libertarians believe in meritocracy.

The social libertarian says is “live and let live”, and you must be responsible, and you have to deal with the consequences of your actions.

The social liberal does not believe in “live and let live”. Just witness the gun rights issue. The social liberal wants to pick and choose which issues and behaviors are acceptable. The social liberal does not believe in individual responsibility, and wants the government to minimize the consequences of one’s actions (assuming they are acceptable actions).

The social libertarian says I don’t care what your sexual practices are.

The social liberal says the government must subsidize your sexual practices.

The late, great Milton Friedman described both Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan as libertarians, not conservatives. Ronald Reagan’s Republican coalition was southern social conservatives, western state libertarians (Barry Goldwater, Alan Simpson, and Dick Cheney are examples), and northeastern fiscal conservatives (Bush, Pete Dupont, etc.). The Republicans have lost most of the old northeast fiscal conservative banker class to the Democrats. The western state libertarians seem to be a crowded out to unrestricted immigration. The southern conservatives are still around, but alone are not enough to change the nation.

The Democrats are exceeding their mandate because the communists have taken over the leadership of the party and its affiliated propaganda organ, the MSM. There are businesswomen who voted their “lady parts” and will have their businesses destroyed by ObamaCare. There are young people who at some point will realize ObamaCare and the welfare state are taking away their opportunity.

Embracing libertarianism is a means to regain an electoral majority. It solves the belief in the electorate the Republicans are not a party of fiscal constraint (squandered by GWB), and it weakens the Democrat/communist argument the Republicans will invade America’s bedrooms. It also puts the libertine fake libertarians to the curb. It changes the debate.

I don’t support gay marriage. But Rand’s “get marriage out of the tax code” is an excellent parry. If we passed the Fair Tax, gay “marriage” would provide little beyond “civil unions”. It takes the air out of the message.

We need to think long term. Any battle we could change, and arguably “retreat” from, but in a way that left the victor with greater requirements for personal responsibility is ultimately good.


155 posted on 03/17/2013 4:32:14 PM PDT by magellan
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To: magellan
A “libertarian” is not someone who is fiscally conservative and socially liberal. That is a “Rockefeller Republican”, not a “libertarian.”

It most certainly is except when they are fiscally liberal.

Conservatism is not fighting off libertarians because of economic issues but because of abortion and marriage and social issues and the border.

If libertarians were socially conservative, and economically conservative, then they could just call themselves conservatives.

158 posted on 03/17/2013 4:41:16 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: magellan; ansel12
magellan, I was going to warn you that your response was far too cogent and rational, so prepare to be called a commie and degenerate by ansel12 - responsible for the fall of western civilization - but I'm too late... :-(
161 posted on 03/17/2013 4:51:22 PM PDT by uncommonsense (Conservatives believe what they see; Liberals see what they believe.)
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To: magellan
The social libertarian says is “live and let live”, and you must be responsible, and you have to deal with the consequences of your actions.

Do you see the flaw there?

When you support the left for their “live and let live” agenda of all the things that destroy people, cultures, families, and communities, and nations, you are doing something immediate and effective, it works and is working, and has been working for 50 years.

The second part, the little lecture that he is responsible for the consequences, is nonsense, a weird fantasy, his vote counts just as much as yours, and he will vote for more social programs to support his shallow, broken life, he and every person that grows weaker, and is absorbed by our ever more open society rejecting social conservatism, will also vote with him.

You are breeding big government voters with the efficiency of a farm operation, and fighting the very things and the culture that creates conservative voters.

165 posted on 03/17/2013 5:11:07 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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