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To: Jeff Winston
They seemed to imply it.

No they didn't. I just gave you TWO quotes from the dissent showing that it AGREED that the children of resident aliens could be citizens. If it was objecting to the majority, then it wouldn't be agreeing that children of foreigners could be citizens.

I'm not going to go through the case again and look stuff up for you. You obviously need to read the case yourself.

You need to take your own advice. I've already read the case and know that at no time does the majority ruling ever say that children born in the country of foreigners can be eligible for the office of president or anything that even comes close to this idea.

The incredible thing is how grown people (at least I presume you are grown) can vehemently argue claims that simply have no basis in history or law. And insist month after month, year after year, that their fantasies are true, even though not a single court or any significant legal authority - INCLUDING CONSERVATIVE THINK TANKS WHO PROMOTE THE CONSTITUTION - agrees with them.

Focus, jeffy, the issue isn't about "conservative think tanks."

Ah, but birthers with their baseless theories are "experts," and everyone else - legal experts who were direct friends of the Founders and US Supreme Court Justices included - "don't know what they're talking about."

jeffy, I've given direct quotes from the Supreme Court that directly support definitions of natural-born citizen AND 14th amendment citizenship that excludes Obama from both claims. Whining about so-called "birthers" won't change these facts. Obama is not and cannot be a natural-born citizen under these definitions.

130 posted on 03/12/2013 9:33:12 PM PDT by edge919
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To: edge919
You need to take your own advice. I've already read the case and know that at no time does the majority ruling ever say that children born in the country of foreigners can be eligible for the office of president or anything that even comes close to this idea.

You are simply and absolutely delusional.

And your view is shared by NOBODY WHO IS ANYBODY.

Nor is it even remotely in touch with what the case said.

Here are some of the major points that the Supreme Court made in that case:

"It thus clearly appears that, by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the Crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, the jurisdiction of the English Sovereign, and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign State or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.

III. The same rule was in force in all the English Colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the Constitution as originally established."

So what is this rule, when applied in the United States? That the children of aliens are "natural born SUBJECTS?"

Not exactly. The Court also clearly specifies:

The term "citizen," as understood in our law, is precisely analogous to the term "subject" in the common law, and the change of phrase has entirely resulted from the change of government. The sovereignty has been transferred from one man to the collective body of the people, and he who before was a "subject of the king" is now "a citizen of the State."

In other words, the rule, applied in the United States, is that:

"ALIENS, WHILE RESIDING IN THE DOMINIONS POSSESSED BY THE UNITED STATES, ARE WITHIN THE ALLEGIANCE, THE OBEDIENCE, THE FAITH OR LOYALTY, THE PROTECTION, THE POWER, THE JURISDICTION OF THE COLLECTIVE BODY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, AND THEREFORE EVERY CHILD BORN IN THE UNITED STATES IS A NATURAL-BORN CITIZEN UNLESS THE CHILD OF AN AMBASSADOR OR OTHER DIPLOMATIC AGENT OF A FOREIGN STATE OR OF AN ALIEN ENEMY IN HOSTILE OCCUPATION OF THE PLACE WHERE THE CHILD WAS BORN."

That is a simple substitution of everything the Court has explicitly told us we can substitute.

First they said the SAME RULE has always applied in England and then in the United States. So if we want to know the rule in the United States, we can take the wording of that rule and substitute "the United States" every place where it originally said "England."

Then they told us that "citizen" was a PRECISE ANALOGUE to "subject." So that means that when writing out the rule as it applies in the United States, we can absolutely substitute the word "citizen" every place where we see the word "subject."

And they also told us that the sovereign, or KING has been substituted for the collective body of the people of the United States. So we can make that substitution as well, when writing out what they are telling us the rule is FOR THE UNITED STATES.

All of this is very elementary use of the English language. It is unavoidable. It is inescapable, and to pretend this is not what the Court is saying is absolutely disingenuous.

It's all very straightforward. An elementary school child could understand it.

This, then, is the ruling of the Wong Kim Ark Court:

THEREFORE EVERY CHILD BORN IN THE UNITED STATES IS A NATURAL-BORN CITIZEN UNLESS THE CHILD OF AN AMBASSADOR OR OTHER DIPLOMATIC AGENT OF A FOREIGN STATE OR OF AN ALIEN ENEMY IN HOSTILE OCCUPATION OF THE PLACE WHERE THE CHILD WAS BORN.

Wong Kim Ark was not the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state. He was not the child of an alien enemy in hostile occupation.

It is absolutely, CRYSTAL CLEAR that Wong Kim Ark fulfilled the rule that the Supreme Court said applied here, and that had ALWAYS applied here.

This is why the dissent expressed their understanding that the majority had ruled Wong Kim Ark eligible to become President. Because it is crystal clear.

It also explains why courts have repeatedly ruled Barack Obama to be a natural born citizen, and why the Supreme Court has repeatedly refused to hear any appeals from any such cases.

Because THEY ALREADY DECIDED THE ISSUE, in 1898.

It also explains why everybody with any knowledge or authority looks upon birthers as absolute kooks and nutjobs.

Because that is what you are.

And all of this is completely unavoidable, except by going to great contortions to twist the ruling. Which of course you and other birthers do, every day, since that is the only way you can possibly try to maintain the silly fantasy.

134 posted on 03/12/2013 10:07:34 PM PDT by Jeff Winston
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