Unless of course, this end was predictable - which it was... and it was predictable for the reasons I have already laid out. IF this was a predictable end, then it is YOU who threw the vote away. It is YOU, mindlessly aping the "Anybody but Obama!" spiel, and shouting down those with reason. who correctly claimed that the only way forward was through a third party, because the Republican candidate was gonna LOSE. It is YOU who sealed our fate, by continuing to support that which is untenable...
How does all that accusation feel? I really don't mean to accuse !YOU!... I just wanted you to feel that... Because that is what is being dished out to the libertarians and principled conservatives. You may freely edit my comments to replace 'you' with 'all y'all', but the point remains the same.
You really need to look at this stuff from the other way around, because your method doesn't work. IT IS A MYTH, which starts with the assumption that Conservative votes belong to the Republican... That has NEVER been true - but is especially so now, when the majority of Conservatives stand outside of the Republican party. They have no obligation to vote for the big rhinestone "R". And neither do Libertarians.
You can have a sore butt about it all you want, but the outcome will not change. You must provide a candidate they can vote *FOR*. They vote for their principles, so a candidate who doesn't have those principles, will not win, regardless of which fear mongering you may apply, and regardless of the boogey-man you may point to.
[roamer_1:] “The very same can be said of the Christians, who, given their own party, would also represent excesses which are just as unhealthy....
Like what ? Opposing homosexual “marriage” ? Not bowing to Shariah Law ? Not becoming secular humanists ? What “excesses” would you be referring to ? That sounds like the Cultural Marxism of the left to me.
I gave you three examples: theocracy, social justice, and big-government largess, which Christians ARE currently succumbing to. Again, look to Huckabee. Look to the Christian Left... Christians are buying what they stand for.
That is *not* a hack against Christianity. I am a Christian, and I have devoted much ink hereon to the defense of the Judeo-Christian Ethic. My observation comes from trying to know and understand that faction within conservatism as a whole. What makes Conservative Christians relatively immune to those pitfalls is not Christianity itself, but rather (and oddly enough, considering this conversation) it is their acceptance of libertarian concepts that keep them from fouling the nest. Enough federalism has rubbed off on them that they can see the truth that their Christian forefathers gave us through Protestantism, and in the establishment of this great country.
Your view on this matter is highly myopic. Even a cursory examination of history will reveal plenty of reasons why the Christians ALONE cannot drive the bus. A good portion of our founding was to escape religious tyranny (pssst!: by Christians!!).
That is not to say that one must blithely accept homo marriage and sharia law as part of the fabric of an inclusive United States, as you accuse. It does mean that one must stay within the lines of our federalist system in order to fight these things... and especially so in order to win - Because the other factions of Conservatism will not allow (elect) it otherwise.
[roamer_1:] The same can be said of ANY conservative faction. They ALL will go to unhealthy places if left to their own devices.
Really ? Did that happen under Coolidge ? Under Reagan ? They were Conservatives and that didn’t happen.
I am speaking directly toward the factions within Conservatism, and *not* Conservatism itself. I cannot speak of Coolidge, but Reagan, as the father of modern Conservatism is the quintessential answer: Reagan was not a factional conservative. He held ALL the principles of Conservatism to be true, and since he held all, he is a poor example to use for your point...
He certainly DID recognize the factional nature of Conservatism - That while true Conservatism is monolithic, it's adherents are not. Research 'the Conservative three-legged stool' to understand. That 'three-legged stool' is still there and can never go away. We don't all serve ALL of the principles of Conservatism, and those factions are exactly the point.
[roamer_1:] Defense conservatism winds up logically in military tyranny.
Um...no, it doesn’t. It results in a safer nation. It’s leftism that breeds tyranny. (Nazi Germany, the USSR, Cuba, Fascist Italy, Vietnam, North Korea, Pol Pot’s Cambodia, etc.)
Ummm.... yes, it does. Again, quit taking offense and expand your view: History is rife with examples. Tyrants cannot survive without control of the military, to include the ones you point to... But that story is ages old. Long before 'leftism' ever reared it's ugly head. And quite often, the worst of the worst come up through the military establishment to assume power.
And that is why our fathers, when finally deciding that a federal standing army was unavoidable, at the same time, established the Bill of Rights to try to curb the eventual coercion (libertarian truth) they knew a standing army could and would enable.
And again, that FACTION is only made immune to it's own nature through the libertarian FACTION's principles against coercion.
It is vitally important to understand what conservative virtue it is that the libertarians hold - It is that stand against coercion that is absolutely precious - Every bit as precious as the principles the other factions hold, because that principle is what keeps all the other factions in check. It is absolutely vital to the Conservative conscience - Equal, to me, to the imperatives held within the Judeo-Christian Ethic, and quite compatible to the teachings within the Holy Bible.
“Unless of course, this end was predictable - which it was... and it was predictable for the reasons I have already laid out. IF this was a predictable end, then it is YOU who threw the vote away.”
Wrong. Neither Virgil Goode nor Gary Johnson had a snowball’s chance in Hell of winning a thing. The main goal was to get rid of Obama. Was I thrilled with Romney ? Absolutely not. I fought like hell against him during the primary, but it wasn’t in the cards.
“IT IS A MYTH, which starts with the assumption that Conservative votes belong to the Republican...”
Conservatives vote for Republicans. This is why the vote totals for the paleocon Constitution party and the Liberaltarian party is counted in the thousands, not the millions the Republican party receives. Now of course, We the Conservatives are never 100% thrilled with the GOP and its wimpy Establishment, but when all is said and done, it’s still the party of Reagan.
“You must provide a candidate they can vote *FOR*.”
Can’t argue with that. Flip-flopping RINOs like Romney are not the answer, just like Rupaul is not the answer.
“I gave you three examples: theocracy, social justice, and big-government largess, which Christians ARE currently succumbing to.”
Then they are not Christians. Social “justice” has nothing to do with Christianity. The 70% of my “fellow” Jews who voted for Obama have no business whatsoever calling themselves Jews, either.
One cannot be a leftist and believe in God. 2+2=5.