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To: Jim Noble

Technically and by the law the US does not make any special accommodations of dual or multiple citizenship. And when you naturalize as a US citizen you must formally renounce all other allegiances, thus re-enforcing the fact that as far as the US is concerned it is the only citizenship it will worry about when dealing with you.

That said, unlike some other countries - like Indonesia - the US does not expressly prohibit dual and multi-nationality. We probably all know some dual citizens. I know some tri and quad nationals. This is common with people born in British lands and move and/or marry others.

What minor native or natural born US citizen children do not lose regardless of the actions of their parents or guardians is the RIGHT to US citizenship upon reaching the age of majority. They may lose their actual status of US citizen while a minor. And this change in status would be recognized by the US.

How would you know someone ‘lost’ their US citizenship? There is a simple rule for US citizens traveling abroad. When entering the US you MUST show yourself as a US citizen. i.e. have a US passport. You can hold 4 different passports (I know someone who does) but when you enter the US and are in the US you MUST act and declare yourself a US citizen at all times. As a US citizen traveling or residing abroad you still MUST have a US passport.

If you present a foreign passport upon entry into the US or do not posses a US passport and only posses a foreign passport it clear you are not, at that point in time, a US citizen.

A child born in the US who has ‘lost’ their US citizenship due to parents renouncing and moving abroad can still reclaim US citizenship - through NATURALIZATION.

AT ANY POINT IN SPECIFIC TIME a naturalized citizen is not a natural born Citizen. The two groups or sets are non-intersecting or non-overlapping. You quite being a natural born citizen when you quite being a citizen. If you are no longer a citizen at all the adjectives are meaningless. When citizenship is bestowed to you later you via US Congress approved naturalization laws you are a naturalized citizen, not a natural born citizen at that point in time and going forward.

Applying the above to Obama known situations.

- His mother married an Indonesian citizen in March 1965. According to Indonesian law she (and her children) were Indonesian citizens as of March 1966.

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/docid/3ae6b4ec8.html

From link above:

“Article 1. Citizens of the Republic of Indonesia are:

...

b.persons who at their birth have a legal family relationship with their father, a citizen of the Republic of Indonesia, with the understanding that said citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia starts as from the existence of that legal family relationship and that said legal family relationship is created before the persons concerned have reached the age of 18 or before they are married at an earlier age;

...

Article 2.

(1)A foreign child of less than 5 years age who is adopted by a citizen of the Republic of Indonesia acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia, if such an adoption is declared legal by the Pengadilan Negeri at the residence of the person adopting the child.

...

Article 7.

...

(2)With the exception as mentioned in para 1 the foreign woman who marries a citizen of the Republic of Indonesia also acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia one year after the marriage has been contracted, if within that one year her husband does not make a statement as to release his citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia.”

In the last article SAD’s Indonesian started no later than March 1966. And note that Indonesian citizenship is automatic for an adopted child under the age of 5. As of March 1966 Obama was only 4 years. And as of March 1966 his mother was considered an Indonesian citizen - thus as of March 1966 through one of the mechanisms above Obama was an Indonesian citizen.

Via the (incomplete) passport records obtained via FOIA for SAD it is known that Obama was expressly removed from her US passport in August of 1968. So at this point in time there is no known US passport for Obama. And according to Indonesian law he should not have one. Neither should SAD as Indonesia does expressly forbid dual citizenship. Since this is less than 1 year after mother and child had entered the country in 1967 this all may have been part of the ‘clean up citizenship status’ effort if they entered Indonesia on US passports in 1967 but needed to formally transfer all their records to Indonesian citizen records to reflect their Indonesian citizen status. The one year period commonly mentioned above may not have started until they entered Indonesia in 1967.

The next data point is the Christmas time photo with Scott in Hawaii in 1969. This shows Obama was traveling between Indonesia and Hawaii. What passport did Obama use for this trip back to the US. Likely an Indonesia passport - though it is unknown for sure.

Based on the laws of Indonesia and the documented fact that Obama was removed from his mothers US passport without evidence of obtaining his own US passport it is a REASONABLE conclusion that he was recognized as solely as an Indonesian citizen between August 1968 and December of 1971. And that after 1971 at some point he would have to naturalize to re-establish US citizenship. And a naturalized citizen is not a natural born Citizen. And if all this is the case we have a cut and dry Constitutional crisis.


210 posted on 07/21/2012 8:52:34 AM PDT by bluecat6 ( "A non-denial denial. They doubt our heritage, but they don't say the story is not accurate.")
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To: bluecat6
Excellent job
215 posted on 07/21/2012 9:55:56 AM PDT by hoosiermama (Obama: "Born in Kenya" Lying now or then.)
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To: bluecat6; butterdezillion; Red Steel
There are at least a couple of items that Hawaii DOH has not verified.

1)Whether there was an amended or altered BC issued for Obama if/when he was adopted. Even if they showed a bonafide copy of his original BC, it would not show a later amendment or that it was late, unless it was amended after one year. The Hawaiian verification did not verify the WH document completely it verified the information, thus if the original was marked ALTERED or LATE it could have been modified by someone before posting on the WH and removed the wording ALTERED or LATE and it might not conflict with the Hawaii verification of information. No one in the press has asked Obama if he was adopted or ever used a different name or citizenship.

2) The Original on file with HDOH has never been publicly verified or inspected by a court or document examiner.

Obama has vigorously refused to enter his BC into any court of law where it could be challenged for authenticity and an inspection likely made.

3) An empty file could have had a forged copy “inserted”. A copy of a forgery even though certified as a copy is still a copy of a forgery.

Referencing Jill Nagamine's comments to CCP "you still have a drivers license" makes one wonder if in fact Hawaii Knows the BC is forged but still a Birth Certificate 41:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alVzyfptF80

Coupled with his Social Security number and Draft registration questions, a true inspection of all original documents is necessary and is called for.

219 posted on 07/21/2012 3:22:32 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: bluecat6
And that after 1971 at some point he would have to naturalize to re-establish US citizenship. And a naturalized citizen is not a natural born Citizen. And if all this is the case we have a cut and dry Constitutional crisis.

BO has run for, and served in, the offices of the Illinois House and the United States Senate.

Both offices require U.S. citizenship for eligibility.

What sort of proof of U.S. citizenship (if any) did BO provide when he ran for and served in the above offices?

222 posted on 07/21/2012 3:45:52 PM PDT by thecodont
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