That Other Question in the Public Unions debate…

Flopping Aces ^ | 06-04-12 | Brother Bob

[Starman417]

First off, I'd really like to hear from members of unions on this one, particularly the public sector ones. Please drop your comments below.

In the not too distant future the state of Wisconsin will be holding what a number of pundits are dubbing, "The second most important election in 2012." This is referring to the recall election that Governor Scott Walker faces against Democrat challenger Tom Barrett. The long and short of the reason for this election is that Wisconsin, like many other states was facing a budget crisis. Walker noticed that a large chunk of their budget woes were from contracts with the unions representing state employees that were not economically feasible. Walker passed a series of laws to reign in union power, which naturally the unions were not about to take lying down. So after a long series of battles back and forth that are too long to document here, the recall election looks to be the final end game for both sides. However, in all of the debate there is one question regarding public sector unions that has only been discussed as sidebars.

When I was in grad school our Business Communication teacher was a pretty good leftist. One of my classmates, who at the time was a driver for a shipping company and working toward getting a position in management (which he did) was grumbling about having to deal with the union and having to pay dues to them. The teacher chimed in by asking him if he was willing to give back all of those raises that it had earned for him over the years, at which time I think my classmate just shook his head on his way out. At this stage in my life I was about as apolitical as one could get, so I had no response. It's a shame, because looking back on it now the response would have been an easy one:

"Of course I would give those back. Instead I'll take all of the raises from the people who earned them and promotions through the merit of their work. I've followed the same path and expect to be compensated more than the average employee. And how much were those raises after you deduct the dues we are forced to pay?" I would have added that knowing nothing about this guy's performance I'd have conservatively placed him in the top quarter of his peers. All I knew about him on his job is that he had the initiative to give up his free time away from his then pregnant wife (who delivered a healthy baby during our final year) to try to improve his career prospects I'd say that it was safe to say that this guy was one of his company's stars. Knowing that he was worth more than most of his peers, why should he settle for the same pay as the ones who just go through the motions or under perform?

Let's take this idea a step further - unless your goal is to be paid for being no better than at least half of your peers why wouldn't you prefer the freedom to individually negotiate your compensation? Is it really better to be assured a fixed raise when you could be getting paid more if there weren't so much of the payroll budget being spent on people who don't share your work ethic? Or how much more could go to reward your hard work if the company were able to fire nonperformers instead of jumping through union-negotiated hoops? And if they won't pay you fairly, you have the freedom to move on.

That was too long a sidebar to get to my main point that goes back to the public union employees. A while back I believe it was Mark Steyn who looked at then governor of New Jersey John Corzine negotiating on behalf of the people of NJ with some of the public employee unions. He told a crowd of union members that he would fairly represent them at the bargaining table. Of course, this earned rousing cheers from the audience but raised an important question - if Corzine is negotiating on behalf of the unions, who is representing the people whose taxes will pay for his promises?

[hosepipe]

UNIONS suck........... yes all of them...
They suck like Vampires... parasites... tape worms, intestinal worms.. sometimes like lice, leeches and ticks.. but mostly like VAmpires..

If your a LEO, Firefighter, Teacher or Givernment worker..
I AM TALKING TO YOU!... (FIRST) and various construction workers second..

[Bryanw92]

I’m in a public employee’s union in a Right To Work state. It takes $20 out of my paycheck each payday for dues, plus some BS “pre-paid legal” fee of $7.50 that is just a kickback to an attorney up north somewhere for services that are less useful than Legal Zoom.com.

I work as a SCADA Programmer for a utility company. I make the same money or a little less than I’d make if I was in the private sector. I do get good benefits such as a health care plan and a couple weeks vacation each year. And I could retire at age 55, except that I left the private sector when I was 42, so I have to work until at least 62 before I can retire.

I brought skills to this job and I do good work for my pay. Through my efforts, I automate an entire wastewater collection and treatment system so very few people are required to operate it, saving the customers a lot of money each month.

Our contract forbids strikes or slowdowns, and we have worked without a contract since 2010, which means no raises since October 2009.

We supply water and sewer to 600,000 people and have some of the lwest rates in the state. How am I an intestinal parasite?

[cripplecreek]

I can be constructive because I was once a forced union member myself (AFL-CIO). Fight back from within.

http://www.unionconservatives.com/

[Bryanw92]

And I pay 8% of my salary into the retirement fund each payday.

[Bryanw92]

There isn’t anything to fight. As I said, I’m in a RTW state and 75% of the union membership are conservatives. We tried to get our jobs reclassified out of the union and the company stopped us because they prefer to deal with the employees collectively rather than individually. In a RTW state, a union is nothing more than a secondary HR department.

[Lurker]

If you have a defined benefit pension plan, you’re an intestinal parasite.

[hosepipe]

[ We supply water and sewer to 600,000 people and have some of the lwest rates in the state. How am I an intestinal parasite? ]

Because you’re an ENABLER...
Whats worse the addict or the enabler?..

[Dusty Road]

“I work as a SCADA Programmer for a utility company. I make the same money or a little less than I’d make if I was in the private sector. I do get good benefits such as a health care plan and a couple weeks vacation each year. And I could retire at age 55, except that I left the private sector when I was 42, so I have to work until at least 62 before I can retire.”

Lets start with that retire at 55 thing. Do the taxpayers that support your salary have the same option? How much of a match do you get on your 8% contribution? Does your retirement come with a medical package? In the private sector we wait until we're at least 65 to retire many of us don't get matching contributions into our 401’s and we contribute 10%, some don't get 401’s. No we have to rely on our own savings plans and SS with no guarantee either will be enough for our future. Nobody working for the government should be able to retire any sooner than the people paying their salary. Government retirement systems are what's breaking city's, counties, states and entire countries.

[mo]

“Nobody working for the government should be able to retire any sooner than the people paying their salary. Government retirement systems are what’s breaking city’s, counties, states and entire countries.”

WINNAH!WINNAH!!!!

The employees aren’t supposed to retire ahead of the boss/owner.......

[wayoverontheright]

Well yes, the basic flaw in unionization is that one must give up his right to have his labor judged as his alone. This has always been the Achilles heel and will always be.