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To: betty boop; spirited irish

Yes, I read her post, and I understood it. I’ve also read other things by her in the past, including essays she’s published elsewhere. (Assuming she’s the person I’m thinking of.)

I know neither of you said Jesus is a liar. What she said is that if evolution were true, then Jesus must have been lying when He said that God created them male and female at the beginning. I presume she meant this as an argument for why evolution must not be true, rather than an argument for why Jesus was a liar.

You write that God created man male and female regardless of “physical considerations that ensued later.” But evolution is all and only about physical considerations. If you allow that “God created them male and female” might have nothing to do with actual bodies, why can’t our bodies be the product of evolution? What do you mean by “his present state”—an ensouled body/enfleshed spirit? As with the statement about evolution producing Jesus, no one credits Darwinian evolution with producing the soul. If that’s your problem with evolution, you’re arguing with a straw man. (And don’t ask me at what point humans got souls—that’s above my pay grade.)


121 posted on 04/23/2012 10:46:00 AM PDT by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical; spirited irish; Alamo-Girl; allmendream; Matchett-PI
But evolution is all and only about physical considerations.

Which is why arguably it is an "incomplete" theory. It tells us nothing about the origin of life or of consciousness; and yet living beings are both alive and in possession of some form of consciousness. Thus living beings are more than just their material or physical basis. Darwinism can't address that "more" in principle.

It is essentially an historical theory. It tells us what it alleges happened to biological species on an historical timeline. Yet this

...historical (or horizontal) perspective ... is only useful insofar as it helps to illuminate a non-historical or "vertical" dimension operating outside chronological time. Both religious and scientific fundamentalists attempt to locate in historical time what can only be found in metaphysical space, and mistakenly regard conventional history as more "real" than the deeper or higher truth from which it is a declension. — Robert Godwin, One Cosmos under God, 2004, p. 200

Plato had an interesting suggestion: He said that the soul is the "form" of the body. That is, it preexists (and post-exists) physical incarnation and is that which "describes" and "orders" the physical. He believed that souls are immortal long before Christianity came along to confirm this astounding insight.

You mentioned that you consider the question of "at what point humans got souls" is "above your pay grade." But God freely tells you this — in Genesis 1.

122 posted on 04/23/2012 11:18:20 AM PDT by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through the eye. — William Blake)
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